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Old April 28 2013, 04:41 AM   #1
Bry_Sinclair
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George and Gracie

So after all the work Kirk & Co did in TVH to bring humpbacks into the future to save Earth, how long did they last after that?

I mean only one breeding pair wouldn't be enough to start a whole species from without massive inbreeding and all the problems what causes. Or did the Federation decide to send more ships back in time to restore the species to avoid another probe attack?
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Old April 28 2013, 04:43 AM   #2
Dale Sams
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Re: George and Gracie

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
So after all the work Kirk & Co did in TVH to bring humpbacks into the future to save Earth, how long did they last after that?

I mean only one breeding pair wouldn't be enough to start a whole species from without massive inbreeding and all the problems what causes. Or did the Federation decide to send more ships back in time to restore the species to avoid another probe attack?
Between cloning and advanced gene manipulation tech, I would think they could figure something out.
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Old April 28 2013, 04:47 AM   #3
Third Nacelle
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Re: George and Gracie

It's possible that before humpbacks went extinct, embryos were frozen and they just need a female to carry them. I like to think that they repopulated the species somehow.
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Old April 28 2013, 08:59 AM   #4
Vanyel
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Re: George and Gracie

Maybe a Jurassic Park kind of thing. Find Blue Whale DNA from bones in museums and clone away.
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Old April 28 2013, 12:20 PM   #5
T'Girl
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Re: George and Gracie

Here in the Puget Sound area, we have endangered orcas (southern resident pods J, K and L), it has been observed that orcas avoid mating with siblings or offspring. With cousins is possible, but they usually mate outside the extended family pod.

Orcas and humpbacks aren't the same of course, but whales are intelligent beings and the expectation that they will simply reproduce with their own children, and between brothers and sisters, is unreasonable.

Left to their own devices, the offspring of George and Gracie would live out their lives and die without producing children.

I would hope that forcing the small family to have offspring with each other (artificial insemination or normal sex) would be against future law.

If they had frozen genetic material/the means to clone why wouldn't the people of Earth future have already repopulated the oceans?

Sadly, within approximately a century of George of Gracie coming to the future, the oceans will be empty of whales again.



Last edited by T'Girl; April 28 2013 at 12:31 PM.
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Old April 28 2013, 03:44 PM   #6
Dale Sams
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Re: George and Gracie

T'Girl wrote: View Post



If they had frozen genetic material/the means to clone why wouldn't the people of Earth future have already repopulated the oceans?




Dumb Federation ethics. "Who are we...blah blah blah. We haven't had whales for 200 years, we can't know the impact..blah blah blah"
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Old April 28 2013, 05:32 PM   #7
T'Girl
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Re: George and Gracie

Spock was able to mindmeld with Gracie. Given the existence of the universal translator, if the humpback whales were to prosper and multiple in Earth's oceans, by the 24th century would a humpback whale be able to become Earth's representative to the Federation Council?

Obviously not homo sapiens, however they are indigenous to this planet. You should not have to be humanoid to be on the Council, should you?

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Old April 28 2013, 05:35 PM   #8
R. Star
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Re: George and Gracie

If that whale somehow manages to run and campaign for the Council.... why not? Don't see it happening though.
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Old April 28 2013, 06:24 PM   #9
EliyahuQeoni
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Re: George and Gracie

T'Girl wrote: View Post

If they had frozen genetic material/the means to clone why wouldn't the people of Earth future have already repopulated the oceans?
Its been ages since I read it, but I seem to recall Vonda McIntyre's TVH novelization addressed this issue. They did have the genetic material/means to clones whales. However, since no living humpback existed there would be no adults to raise the young clones. George & Gracie would become foster-parents to the new population of whales, raising them and teaching them.

I'm not sure that is a 100% solid explanation, but it made sense when I read it as a kid.
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Old April 28 2013, 06:31 PM   #10
R. Star
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Re: George and Gracie

I guess if you accept the premise of whales being sentient creatures, that if you clone one, that would be akin to placing a human kid to grow up in the wild. Sure he can function and survive, but you wouldn't be able to communicate with him when he's 25.
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Old April 28 2013, 06:45 PM   #11
The Mirrorball Man
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Re: George and Gracie

When humpback whales are your only line of defense against a completely mysterious super-race hell bent on destroying your civilization, you better believe that George and Gracie are going to get cloned time and time again.
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Old April 29 2013, 04:05 AM   #12
xvicente
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Re: George and Gracie

clone
clone
clone
clone
A big problem with that is where to find whale-sized equivalents of uteruses to gestate the clones.

I think Kirk probably never really intended to "repopulate the species". He needed the whales only tell the probe to go f itself.
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Old April 29 2013, 04:41 AM   #13
Nerys Myk
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Re: George and Gracie

Nah, the message was "Nothing to see here, move along."
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Old April 29 2013, 06:05 AM   #14
Dale Sams
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Re: George and Gracie

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Nah, the message was "Nothing to see here, move along."
"Don't Panic"
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Old April 29 2013, 02:47 PM   #15
Timo
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Re: George and Gracie

A big problem with that is where to find whale-sized equivalents of uteruses to gestate the clones.
Not a problem. As seen in "A Man Alone", they can do it from start to finish in simple vats, at least in the 24th century.

They did have the genetic material/means to clones whales. However, since no living humpback existed there would be no adults to raise the young clones.
We don't even need that much rationalization here. Suffice to assume they have the material, but they just plain don't have any motivation to make use of it - not until it turns out that Earth needs whales in the next fifteen minutes or everybody will die, which isn't exactly the best motivation for starting cloning.

Why return whales to the oceans? Just to prove that mankind has cleaned up its act (and said oceans)? The whales themselves won't care. The oceans won't care. Heck, all sorts of krill and shrimp will be elated with the whales gone. AFAWK, they haven't restored the buffalo, either, and those never really went totally extinct.

Besides, Earth fears new Khans so intensely that it has banned many sorts of helpful gene therapies. Hobby cloning is probably an offense punishable by six months in therapy.

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