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Old April 25 2013, 10:49 PM   #76
CaptainCanada
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Hmm, Peggy bats it outta the park by figuring out exactly what the client wants.
I'm really not sure what we were supposed to take away from that, because Peggy was just parrotting Don's old lines, and doing exactly what the client wants has usually been presented by the show as a bad thing.

Personally, I thought Don's pitch was much more memorable. Peggy's was basically just "Heinz: We exist!".
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Old April 26 2013, 03:59 AM   #77
the G-man
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

gblews wrote: View Post
the G-man wrote: View Post
gblews wrote: View Post
So Don is against the war. I guess this is because of his experience in Korea. But back in the 60's, even vets were mostly for the war so this seems a bit unusual for Don. It also places him in bed (so to speak) with a gaggle of folk he would not like to be seen with publicly. The characeter has evolved at least in some areas, so perhaps this is a continuation of his journey.
By January-February 1968 and the Tet Offensive majorities had firmed up the view that the decision to enter the war had been "a mistake."**it's a big part of the reason that LBJ didn't run for reelection that year.
Well yeah, but I'm not sure we are being told that Don is against the war because of conclusions drawn after the Tet Offensive. ...
You said it was "unusual" that someone like Don would be against the Vietnam War. However, as a matter of historical fact, by this point in the show's history a majority of Americans were against the war. As such, there's nothing "unusual" about Don's opinion, regardless of his reasons for holding it.
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Old April 26 2013, 05:01 AM   #78
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
It's awesome that Peggy stole the account away from him.
Did she? I thought they said J. Walter Thompson got it.
Right. When Chaough said something about slicing off a part of business for the small firms to fight over, he was referring to his firm as well as SCDP.
Thanks for clearing that up guys. I was confused - I also thought Ted and Peggy got the account. Is Stan going to get in shit once it's found out he was the weak link? I never thought I'd see Ken angry at Don/Pete but he's right about the 'being known for loyalty' thing. They still have Jaguar and lots of other clients, so I don't think they'll be giving up the second floor anytime soon.

Actually, I predict there will be no return to the penny pinching days of the firm, I think the show is from now on going to explore the pitfalls of success and the misery of being unable to achieve true happiness. That's something Don certainly can't deal with.

Outstanding episode, the best of the new season by far. Glad the spousal cheating was at an all time low and finally some Joan storyline. I certainly hope she holds her own and doesn't end up leaving - I fear Harry's ultimatum may include buying out Joan's partnership from her. Harry's always been such an asshole to her. He's not a very nice person in general.

But I'm thrilled to see Peggy and Don are finally going to headbutt each other!! Don's good but she's better. But we know Don will do anything to win these things. Remember Life Cereal's "the cure for the common breakfast?" In a way, I kind of hope that the series ends with Peggy buying Don out of SCDP. I have no idea where she is going as a character but she's fascinating.

Don's pitch was more clever but not what they wanted... Peggy did seem to understand they wanted to see their bottle in the ad.

Don is such a professional taker. He takes everything including the spirit of his wife. He is absolutely going to break her this season and I wish that it could happen quickly like a band aid but it'll probably come slow. Thing is, I could actually see Don changing his mind about the swinging/wife swapping. Don may try and use that against her or something. However the swap turns out, if it happens or not, I'm sure it'll end with Megan's character being written off 'To Have and To Hold.' I wonder if that soap's title is meant to reflect on how Don sees Megan - a prize for him to keep but not enjoy, he's tired of her as he tires of things and aches for something new, again the Dr. Maye Miller quote, "you only like the beginning of things."

This season is going to be absolutely gut wrenching. Can't wait for Sunday!
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Old April 26 2013, 06:25 AM   #79
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

The show had it right from its very first concept. Literal. Ephemeral. Figurative and ultimately truthful.

Don's a dick.
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Old April 26 2013, 03:40 PM   #80
the G-man
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Outstanding episode, the best of the new season by far. Glad the spousal cheating was at an all time low and finally some Joan storyline. I certainly hope she holds her own and doesn't end up leaving - I fear Harry's ultimatum may include buying out Joan's partnership from her. Harry's always been such an asshole to her. He's not a very nice person in general.
I love Joan and have said before one of the tragedies of both the show and the era it is set in is that someone as smart and capable as she is gets thought of as "just a secretary" by virtue of an accident of birth.

That being said, Harry's got a legitimate point. In most partnership business models, the rainmakers get to be partners, not the administrators. It doesn't matter how competent you are managing things, male or female. You need to bring in business. Partners divide the income. Income is generated by bringing in and keeping clients.

Harry does that regularly. Joan did it once. While he certainly deserves scorn from the viewer for how he treated her over the script readings, under the standard partnership model, he deserved a partnership more than she did.
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Old April 26 2013, 08:13 PM   #81
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

the G-man wrote: View Post
gblews wrote: View Post
the G-man wrote: View Post

By January-February 1968 and the Tet Offensive majorities had firmed up the view that the decision to enter the war had been "a mistake."**it's a big part of the reason that LBJ didn't run for reelection that year.
Well yeah, but I'm not sure we are being told that Don is against the war because of conclusions drawn after the Tet Offensive. ...
You said it was "unusual" that someone like Don would be against the Vietnam War.
Okay, "surprising" then, to me.
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Old April 27 2013, 12:10 AM   #82
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Fair enough. I must admit I was a little surprise too when he said it but then I remembered where we were in the timeline
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Old April 29 2013, 08:29 AM   #83
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

I hate to say it, but I didn't buy all the(white) characters being that upset about Dr. King's death. Some of them, yes. Not all. Don's drinking again now? The man needs a therapist.

I'm worried someone will shoot Henry. Ouch. Oh well, Don. Maybe you should take Bobby to the movies more than once in a blue moon? Or maybe Bobby senses than Henry isn't a big giant douchebag like you? I should feel sorry for Don, but I don't. And I'm okay with that.
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Old April 29 2013, 02:34 PM   #84
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Don is a complex character which is part of the fascination. He isn't all bad or all good. He has his demons (like many people) and can be reactive like a lot if not most people. I'd argue that a lot of people just react rather than think first before they say or do something.

And I think thats true of all or most of the characters on the show. They're nuanced rather than mostly caricatures.

I, too, agree that not all white people would have been so broken up about the death of MLK. There would have been quite a few like Harry for whom it was just another well known person who died and life moves on. This happens every time someone famous dies---some are really affected and others just shrug and wonder what the fuss is about. We still see this happen---witness more recently when Princess Di and Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston died and they were just celebrities. MLK represented a lot more than the examples I just cited, but the reactions to such a death are still essentially the same.
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Old April 29 2013, 03:16 PM   #85
Dick Whitman
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Some of the characters were more concerned about the black reaction would be. There was a long time racial tension starting bubble to the surface. Some of their public being upset my have been about person concerns. It was stated outright by Henry but probably felt by others too.
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Old April 29 2013, 05:04 PM   #86
Warped9
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Donald Draper wrote: View Post
Some of the characters were more concerned about the black reaction would be. There was a long time racial tension starting bubble to the surface. Some of their public being upset my have been about person concerns. It was stated outright by Henry but probably felt by others too.
True. We know how history played out, but at the time a lot of people were really worried about racial tensions. Up here in Canada I remember enough about the FLQ in Quebec that had a lot of people very nervous. Today we know that it was just a handful of goofs, but back then no one knew and a lot of people were worried.
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Old April 29 2013, 06:26 PM   #87
the G-man
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Donald Draper wrote: View Post
Some of the characters were more concerned about the black reaction would be. There was a long time racial tension starting bubble to the surface. Some of their public being upset my have been about person concerns. It was stated outright by Henry but probably felt by others too.
True. We know how history played out, but at the time a lot of people were really worried about racial tensions...
Yes, this was only about three years after the Watts riots and less than a year after what was referred to as the "Long Hot Summer." As such, it would not be surprising for some people to worry about what the black reaction would be. And, in fact, some major cities did see rioting following MLK's murder.
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Old April 30 2013, 03:49 AM   #88
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

More thoughts on this weeks episode:

The "previously on mad men" sequence had yet another "Don's going to die" foreshadowing moment when they played back the clip of his son saying that, when he's 40, Don will be dead.

Cool. Harry Hamlin.

Peggy's boss so has the hots for her. He may be middle-aged and married but he's probably still an improvement on her dirty hippie loser boyfriend.

Pete is a horrible little weasel but I strangely enough identified with him in that scene where he was on the phone with Trudy. Not because he's a cheating bastard but because you could feel some confusion and pain and even remorse when he realized he had done something incredibly stupid and now he was paying a price and would probably be paying that price for the rest of his life. Pete is the exemplar of what Don Draper's life would really be like for most people.

And again as I mentioned earlier in another thread as much of a creep as Pete is, for some reason he's the most progressive white character on the show when it comes to civil rights issues.

Joan awkwardly trying to hug dons secretary and her reaction was terribly funny in a horrible way.

Oh, the crazy insurance guy is Ethan from "lost". I knew he looked familiar.

God Betty is a bitch. And sadly Sally is turning into her.

Whoa planet of the apes spoiler alert!

By 1960s standards and putting aside his cheating ways And the divorce, Don is actually a pretty decent father to his son. The drinking isn't cool but taking an upset kid to the movies really isn't that bad of a thing. I thought his speech about fatherhood was one of the most genuine things we've ever seen come out of Don Draper.

And when his son is more worried about Henry then Don was a real punched in the gut

Oh and Hamm standing out on the balcony looking down on the city with the sirens..he must be the next Batman
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Old April 30 2013, 06:01 AM   #89
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

I'm glad to see Bobby and Ginsberg get more to do. Now that Sally is a teen, Bobby fills the void of child character.

Seeing scenes from Planet of the Apes was as great as hearing You Only Live Twice at the end of last season.

It's too late for it in the timeline now, but they really missed an opportunity last year for Bobby to get caught up in the Batman craze. Or Harry making some bean-counter mention of it.

You can see signs of Don not loving/caring about his kids as far back as the first season when he left Sally's birthday right in the middle of it and then came back at night with a dog, as if it were an afterthought. Betty's reaction, "I don't know what to say," was all that needed to be said.
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Old April 30 2013, 06:58 AM   #90
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Don's a great dad when he only has to be a dad once in a while.
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