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Old April 29 2013, 01:04 AM   #76
horatio83
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
That has been my point all along. It doesn't matter if you have more screen time and a better character set up if most of your lines are "Yes, sir" and "Aye, sir."
While you like to pretend that this is a pure Mayweather thingy it isn't. I'd call it pilot's curse, Sulu and Travis often say "yes, sir" and "aye, sir" because they are at the helm. Here are all the lines from two random episodes:

The Galileo Seven

SULU: Scanners are blank, Captain. We're getting a mass of readings I've never seen. Nothing makes sense.
SULU: Yes, sir.
SULU: Aye, aye, sir.
SULU: Yes, Captain?
SULU: Totally inoperative, sir. No readings at all.
SULU: Yes, sir. No change.
SULU: But Captain, two degrees means they'll be overlooking more than a dozen terrestrial miles on each search loop.
SULU: Yes, sir.
SULU: Captain, course set for Makus Three.
SULU: Space normal, sir?
SULU: Captain, there's something there on screen, at Taurus Two.
SULU: No. It's holding a lateral line. There it is again. Holding steady, Captain.
SULU: Whatever it was, Captain, it just burned up in the atmosphere.
SULU: Aye, aye, sir. Warp factor one.

Sleeping Dogs

TRAVIS: Siren calls. That's what we called them when I was a kid. My dad would put them through the speakers whenever we flew by a gas giant. It gave me nightmares sometimes.
TRAVIS: Aye, sir.
TRAVIS: Captain.
TRAVIS: Sir, they're heading into open space.
TRAVIS: Aye, sir.
TRAVIS: Yes, sir.
TRAVIS: Mayweather.
TRAVIS: Yes, sir.
TRAVIS: Sir, the alien ship sunk another two thousand metres. It's below the shuttle's safety limits.
TRAVIS: Ten thousand metres, but I'm having a hard time getting a fix on them. Too much interference.
TRAVIS: Sir, external pressure's at maximum.
TRAVIS: The hull plating's failing.
TRAVIS: I found these schematics in the Vulcan database. It's a Raptor Class scout vessel.
TRAVIS: Its hull's at least twice as thick as ours, reinforced with some kind of coherent molecular alloy.
TRAVIS: Our only other option is for T'Pol and Malcolm to fix a broken-down Klingon ship and fly it out themselves.
TRAVIS: Aye, sir.
TRAVIS: Sir, there are two ships approaching at high warp. I think they're Klingon.
TRAVIS: Sixteen minutes. We're being hailed. It's the Captain.
TRAVIS: Aye, Captain. It's the Raptor, sir. They're hailing us.
TRAVIS: They're moving off.
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Old April 29 2013, 01:07 AM   #77
C.E. Evans
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

Yeah, lot of character development there for Mayweather, all right.
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Old April 29 2013, 01:15 AM   #78
horatio83
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

Sulu and Mayweather did the identical thing in most episodes, sit at the helm and do their job which is anything but interesting character-wise. I cannot do more than literally point it out via their lines and as your denial continues I am getting out of this pointless debate with somebody who is obviously not a member of the reality-based community.
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Old April 29 2013, 01:23 AM   #79
C.E. Evans
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

horatio83 wrote: View Post
Sulu and Mayweather did the identical thing in most episodes, sit at the helm and do their job which is anything but interesting character-wise. I cannot do more than literally point it out via their lines and as your denial continues I am getting out of this pointless debate with somebody who is obviously not a member of the reality-based community.
Get off it. You can call me names if you want or say I'm doing this or that, but my point still stands that Mayweather really wasn't much of a character, you even said so yourself, "There are a few character moments but they don't amount to even roughly sketching out this character ... which is less than Mayweather got."

At this point, you're just splitting hairs or just arguing to be arguing. Can't say I'm interested in that. Anyway, I've got a TV program coming on that is more interesting than this conversation, so I'll have to get back to you later...or not, if I don't feel like going in circles with you.

Buh-bye.
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Old May 28 2013, 12:56 PM   #80
I am not Spock
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
AviTrek wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post
DS9 used all its characters, but most of them were not particularly likeable. That's the main reason to avoid that model.
Breaking Bad is filled with unlikable characters and it was still a success. Unlikable characters can be fine, as long as they're interesting.
Unlikeable characters are practically mandatory on cable/streaming now, and since there's no chance a Trek series would be made solely for broadcast (assuming broadcast even survives long enough), then the next series is most likely going to follow suit in that regards.

None of the Trek series will be used as a model. They are too far in the rear-view mirror. The TV business has moved on and the new successful genre series - Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead - are more likely to be models because they are the closest you can get nowadays to sic fi/cult audience stuff, and they are successful right now, not ten or twenty or fifty years ago.

So there will be more sex, lots more violence and gore, political machinations, backstabbing characters, adult themes, etc. More serialization and more attention to characterization than even DS9. No more Ferengi comedies and romances of the week. Sounds good to me.

Of course an animated series for kids would follow entirely different rules. in that case, it would be like The Clone Wars.

Predicting the form that the next series will take is easy. TV is nothing if not predictable. First, find out where it's going to be shown. Then look around for successful current examples of shows that are some kind of sci fi or close to it. That's what it will be like.
I find shows like Game of Thrones, and most HBO dramas, highly gratuitous, personally. It's like they're trying too hard to be edgy and 'adult' , with all the naughty bits, and swear words. Much like Torchwood.
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Old May 29 2013, 01:12 AM   #81
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

The supporting cast work if:

a) You use them in scenarios where their established skill set is required
b) You give them regular guest characters to bounce off
c) You put them in scenes without the main leads (i.e. multiple support characters together)
d) You use them as the focus of their own story at least once per season
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Old May 29 2013, 02:05 AM   #82
BennieGamali
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

I hope they won't be romancing and sexing everybody up. If they make a new show, I hope they won't make more of the "Newkirk" types. I want some heroic heroes who aren't constantly crying or thinking about love. I would love some of the TOS or TNG feel. I like all the characters in those shows. (Except that terrible Yarr!! And Wes is a bit.. yeah)
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Old May 29 2013, 06:31 PM   #83
Merry Christmas
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

BennieGamali wrote: View Post
I hope they won't be romancing and sexing everybody up.
star trek typically suck when it comes to romance, but if they could lay their hands on a writer who could manage to write a good ongoing romance, i would love to see it.

losing the empty meaningless sex act of the week? please.

I hope they won't make more of the "Newkirk" types.
richard dawson was fantastic on hogans's heroes.

.
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Old June 7 2013, 12:31 AM   #84
BennieGamali
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

T'Girl wrote: View Post
BennieGamali wrote: View Post
I hope they won't be romancing and sexing everybody up.
star trek typically suck when it comes to romance, but if they could lay their hands on a writer who could manage to write a good ongoing romance, i would love to see it.

losing the empty meaningless sex act of the week? please.

I hope they won't make more of the "Newkirk" types.
richard dawson was fantastic on hogans's heroes.

.
I just like the absence of romance and everybody trying to be sexy. The new movies reek of it. I liked it better when they didn't even have to try. Made them look less moronic.

Also, not sure what you meant about Richard Dawson. I don't even know who he is heh..
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Old June 11 2013, 02:59 AM   #85
RandyS
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

BennieGamali wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
BennieGamali wrote: View Post
I hope they won't be romancing and sexing everybody up.
star trek typically suck when it comes to romance, but if they could lay their hands on a writer who could manage to write a good ongoing romance, i would love to see it.

losing the empty meaningless sex act of the week? please.

I hope they won't make more of the "Newkirk" types.
richard dawson was fantastic on hogans's heroes.

.
I just like the absence of romance and everybody trying to be sexy. The new movies reek of it. I liked it better when they didn't even have to try. Made them look less moronic.

Also, not sure what you meant about Richard Dawson. I don't even know who he is heh..
He was an actor in the 1960s on HOGAN'S HEROES a World War II comedy about POW's. In the 1970s, he hosted the game show FAMILY FEUD.

He's been dead for several years now.

I'm not sure what he has to do with Star Trek either. he was never on any of the shows.

Unless T'Girl was thinking of ROXANNE Dawson.
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Old June 11 2013, 05:07 AM   #86
TheSubCommander
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

Personally, I would like to see a show based in the main timeline, but something like 100+ years after the destruction of Romulus, and the following war between the Klingons and Federation.

I don't know exactly what sort of premise, exactly, but here are some of my ideas:

1. The Federation and what's left of the Romulans are finally at peace. Vulcan in particular has extended its helping hand to surviving Romulans and helped them found "New Romulus" Some Romulans accept the ways logic like their Vulcan cousins, others remain true to their Romulan ways, but less aggressive and in fact feel (if grudgingly) a debt of honor owed to the Federation.

2. The Klingon Empire and the Federation are now at an uneasy peace, but not allies. The Klingons lost the war (as fought in Star Trek Online) with the Federation, at a great cost to both sides. Efforts exist on both sides in re-solidifying the alliance the Klingons and Federation once shared, but there are elements on both sides that oppose such actions (some Klingon houses bitter over the loss of the war, and some within Starfleet don't trust the Klingons).

3. Following the events of Voyager Endgame, the virus Future Admiral Janeway introduced has decimated the Borg. The Borg Queen suffered her final and true death. This resulted in the Borg losing its sense order and direction, without her leadership. This resulted in the Borg civilization collapsing, much as it did on a smaller scale as seen in Descent. The Borg have splintered into 3 types of factions:

a. The Borg Remnant: Some Borg are attempting to operate as it did once before, but at a far lesser level of efficiency, and are left rudderless and without direction. They are nowhere near the menace the Borg once were, and often operate in a malfunctioning state, and the fact that the Federation has developed weapons that can now easily repel and defeat them. Rather than conquer and assimilate entire worlds, these have devolved more into raiders of smaller outposts and smaller settlements unable to defend themselves, or prey on wayward vessels that cross their path. They are more akin to marauders, more interested in acquiring raw materials to sustain their dilapidated tattered Cubes and Spheres, only resorting to assimilation if there is a clear and logical reason.

b. The Maxima Culpa: Some have rejected their machine side and attempted to live more as organics desiring to coexist peacefully with the Federation and other Alpha Quadrant powers. Since these former Borg are made up of so many different species from across the galaxy, and the fact that many of their home planets and respective species have not survived assimilation (and to those that have survived, the former Borg are pariahs), these former Borg have banded together and formed their own civilization, as all others reject them, calling themselves the Maxima Culpa. In fact, these former Borg, the Maxima Culpa, feel a deep sense of guilt and shame of their time as the Borg, and wish to make ammends for their past crimes. They are attempting to reach out to the Federation and countless other worlds that have been affected by the Borg in an effort to assist them using their enhanced abilities and technology to help in any way possible, much as 7 of 9 once did. Yet many across the galaxy wonder if these overtures are sincere, or if this is an attempt at reconquest, so many civilizations, including the Federation are wary of the Maxima Culpa.

c. The Hive: The third and most powerful of factions of the Borg have "purified" themselves of their organic elements is the Hive. The Hive see organic elements of the Borg as imperfect and unstable, and even see the organic side of Queen having been destroyed by Janeway's infection as the cause of the Borg's downfall. So this new faction has become completely machine, with a new sense of purpose: no longer interested in assimilation, the Hive intends to exterminate all organic life in the galaxy and replace all organic life with living machines of perfection.
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Old June 11 2013, 02:10 PM   #87
newtontomato539
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

I find shows like Game of Thrones, and most HBO dramas, highly gratuitous, personally. It's like they're trying too hard to be edgy and 'adult' , with all the naughty bits, and swear words. Much like Torchwood.[/QUOTE]

They are popular. Wouldn't want Star Trek to be popular.

I want some heroic heroes who aren't constantly crying or thinking about love. I would love some of the TOS or TNG feel. [/QUOTE]

Absolutely! Men shouldn't cry. That's makes them squishy and f$ggoty. Love is squishy and f#ggoty. No one likes S E X. Sex is icky. Sex is squishy. Sex is f#ggoty.

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Old June 21 2013, 08:53 PM   #88
Sindatur
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

RandyS wrote: View Post
BennieGamali wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
star trek typically suck when it comes to romance, but if they could lay their hands on a writer who could manage to write a good ongoing romance, i would love to see it.

losing the empty meaningless sex act of the week? please.

richard dawson was fantastic on hogans's heroes.

.
I just like the absence of romance and everybody trying to be sexy. The new movies reek of it. I liked it better when they didn't even have to try. Made them look less moronic.

Also, not sure what you meant about Richard Dawson. I don't even know who he is heh..
He was an actor in the 1960s on HOGAN'S HEROES a World War II comedy about POW's. In the 1970s, he hosted the game show FAMILY FEUD.

He's been dead for several years now.

I'm not sure what he has to do with Star Trek either. he was never on any of the shows.

Unless T'Girl was thinking of ROXANNE Dawson.
Most people (If they use the "new" distinguisher) use NuKirk or NKirk.

So, Newkirk (Notice Kirk is not capitalized, so it looks like the name Newkirk) apparently made T'Girl think of Richard Dawson, because his character on Hogan's Heroes is name Corporal Peter Newkirk
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Old June 26 2013, 03:17 AM   #89
Jonesy
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

The Overlord wrote: View Post
Except DS9 is most like a modern TV show then the other Trek shows. Really most of the good TV shows on cable focus on characterization and ongoing plots.

A new Star Trek show will have to be a show of this era, not try to be a show from the 60s or 80s.
I think DS9 is way more politically and socially relevant now then when it was introduced.
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Old June 28 2013, 07:00 PM   #90
yousirname
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio

Jonesy wrote: View Post
I think DS9 is way more politically and socially relevant now then when it was introduced.
I think they did get lucky, if you can call it that, in that respect, yeah.
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