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Old April 28 2013, 11:36 AM   #826
intrinsical
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

I think if the writers want Tommy to turn evil, they would need Tommy to suffer some terrible loss by Oliver's hands. The writers need to do something like what Joss Whedon did in Dr Horrible, kill off Horrible's love interest. And I don't think the writers would ever kill Laurel. I suppose the writers could kill off his father as the reason for his turning, but don't think Tommy loves his father enough to go all evil.
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Old April 28 2013, 12:30 PM   #827
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

intrinsical wrote: View Post
I think if the writers want Tommy to turn evil, they would need Tommy to suffer some terrible loss by Oliver's hands. The writers need to do something like what Joss Whedon did in Dr Horrible, kill off Horrible's love interest. And I don't think the writers would ever kill Laurel. I suppose the writers could kill off his father as the reason for his turning, but don't think Tommy loves his father enough to go all evil.
Perhaps if it turned out his dad killed his mom? Wouldn't give him the reason to hate Oliver, but the shock and trauma could be enough to push him over the edge. Again, he does not have to be evil to be the hero's adversary.
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Old April 28 2013, 03:23 PM   #828
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

Donald Draper wrote: View Post
I can not see Tommy being an effective villain. The type of training he would need to face Oliver would take a very long time. Plus he would know it. He has seen what Oliver can do. He would know he would not be able to stop him. Plus all he would need to do is tell Dectitive Lance Ollie's secret and puts him in jail right away. Tommy taking over for way too obvious and would be totally unbelievable.
Exactly. The only reason to make Tommy a villain is to copy something from the comics, whether Spider-Man or Green Arrow.

Also, does anyone really think that John Barrowman isn't an adequate villain, except for not having the same name or whatever as one villain in a comic?

Also, if Tommy's a good man, then Oliver has a choice to make as to pursuing Laurel. If Tommy is a villain, it's a no-brainer. Characters making the obvious choice is not compelling drama (as witness Oliver's choice to skillz up and harden his ass on the island.)

Also, Laurel is a weak character in many respects. Having the maturity to go for the guy who treats her well, instead of wallowing in drama about the bad boy, at least makes her seem like she's out of high school.
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Old April 28 2013, 03:57 PM   #829
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

Exactly, John Barrowman is fantastic. I had never even heard of him before seeing him on this show. Anything that would remove him from the show would be a huge mistake.

Maybe people assume he will leave because he is guest star and he is too busy with other work?
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Old April 28 2013, 05:31 PM   #830
Timelord Victorious
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

Donald Draper wrote: View Post
Exactly, John Barrowman is fantastic. I had never even heard of him before seeing him on this show. Anything that would remove him from the show would be a huge mistake.

Maybe people assume he will leave because he is guest star and he is too busy with other work?
You should check him out in Doctor Who then.
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Old April 28 2013, 05:47 PM   #831
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

Dunno, he's OK, but I don't see much of a charisma there.

Speaking of charisma, Manu Bennett is outstanding and I was thrilled to hear they cast him as a regular for season 2. The guy playing detective Lance is pretty good too.

stj wrote:
Having the maturity to go for the guy who treats her well, instead of wallowing in drama about the bad boy, at least makes her seem like she's out of high school.
Giving up on the one you love (and who loves you back) for someone that is objectively "right" for you? How depressing. And unfair to this person you "settled" for.
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Old April 28 2013, 06:09 PM   #832
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

Manu Bennett is really awesome, I've never seen him in anything before Spartacus and now Arrow but he is quite an impressive actor with a lot of range, hope he has a great career in front of him.
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Old April 28 2013, 07:26 PM   #833
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

Mach5 wrote: View Post
Giving up on the one you love (and who loves you back) for someone that is objectively "right" for you? How depressing. And unfair to this person you "settled" for.
True love defined ast overwhelming passion is very romantic. But the fact is that Oliver loves his crusade/revenge more than he "loves" Laurel, while Tommy actually treats Laurel with genuine love, which includes respect, even if that doesn't make her toes curl up. Oliver cheated on her with her sister. What Laurel feels for Oliver is romantic infatuation, not love. The relationship wtih Oliver that we've seen isn't a rich emotional life, it's just drama. It may be exciting, and it may be romantic, but it ain't love.
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Old April 28 2013, 08:09 PM   #834
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

Donald Draper wrote: View Post
I can not see Tommy being an effective villain. The type of training he would need to face Oliver would take a very long time. Plus he would know it. He has seen what Oliver can do. He would know he would not be able to stop him. Plus all he would need to do is tell Dectitive Lance Ollie's secret and puts him in jail right away. Tommy taking over for way too obvious and would be totally unbelievable.

I do not know what they will do. Maybe Tommy should be killed off. That would be more interesting. The effect on Laurel and Oliver. It would become a full out war between Oliver and Malcom.
I think that Tommy would end up being a hands-off villain. Someone who calls the shots and provides the money. Not actually getting his own hands dirty.
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Old April 28 2013, 09:00 PM   #835
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

stj wrote: View Post
True love defined ast overwhelming passion is very romantic. But the fact is that Oliver loves his crusade/revenge more than he "loves" Laurel, while Tommy actually treats Laurel with genuine love, which includes respect, even if that doesn't make her toes curl up. Oliver cheated on her with her sister. What Laurel feels for Oliver is romantic infatuation, not love. The relationship wtih Oliver that we've seen isn't a rich emotional life, it's just drama. It may be exciting, and it may be romantic, but it ain't love.
Doesn't change the fact that Merlyn is a textbook rebound guy. This is why he left in the end. He deserves better and he knows it.
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Old April 28 2013, 10:02 PM   #836
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

I thought he left because he was afraid that once she knew, Laurel would throw away her pride and put up with Oliver's preference for crusading, yet there was no way to keep the secret without abusing her like Oliver. Tommy struggles with feelings of inferiority. By high school standards of course Tommy's a total loser.

She's five years into the rebound. If the series really means Tommy to be the rebound guy, then they also really mean that Laurel is pretty much all Wuthering Heights of Emo.
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Old April 28 2013, 10:50 PM   #837
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

Donald Draper wrote: View Post
I can not see Tommy being an effective villain. The type of training he would need to face Oliver would take a very long time. Plus he would know it. He has seen what Oliver can do. He would know he would not be able to stop him. Plus all he would need to do is tell Dectitive Lance Ollie's secret and puts him in jail right away. Tommy taking over for way too obvious and would be totally unbelievable.
I completely agree. It took Ollie 5 years in extreme conditions being trained by increadibly skilled companions, Slade and Shado, who he was living with 24/7. If Tommy ends up as a comparable adversary in one season it would be ridiculous.

But deeper than that, Tommy "broke up" with Ollie in part because he just doesn't get who Ollie is now. He has issues with Ollie being a killer. Even though Ollie has saved Tommy, his dad, and Laurel, Tommy cannot wrap his head around who and what Ollie is now. If Tommy has some kind of epiphany, or a fall from grace, either way he will understand Ollie and have no reason to keep himself separate.

Tommy hated his dad for years, and has suddenly been driven back to him by Ollie. Yes, it makes for compelling drama, but if he becomes the "dark Ollie" he loses the reasons for the break up in the first place. It will take something really serious, like Ollie torturing Tommy's dad for hours, in front of Tommy, to make such a transition believable.

I do not know what they will do. Maybe Tommy should be killed off. That would be more interesting. The effect on Laurel and Oliver. It would become a full out war between Oliver and Malcom.
I could see Tommy dieing in a way that Ollie blames Malcolm and Malcolm blames Ollie. This sets the stage for huge level of animosity between them.

As it stands, Tommy is helpless. He is either dependant on Malcolm or dependant on Ollie. He isn't a powerful enough personality to be a threat to anyone. It would be like Thea suddenly turning into a master assassin.
stj wrote: View Post
Also, if Tommy's a good man, then Oliver has a choice to make as to pursuing Laurel. If Tommy is a villain, it's a no-brainer. Characters making the obvious choice is not compelling drama (as witness Oliver's choice to skillz up and harden his ass on the island.)
I love this point.
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Old April 29 2013, 11:50 PM   #838
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

Oh nice, there's a pretty good discussion brewing here, I hadn't thought to look here for it till just now.

Anywhoo, the last episode of this season is titled "Sacrifice". With what happened last week, that could end up meaning a lot of things.

From the Tommy discussion, I think one expectation is either that Borrowman's character will sacrifice himself for Tommy and entrust his legacy to him or Tommy will sacrifice himself for his dad. That seems to me what could be the big send off for next season.

Like wise, a few other possible sacrifices spring to mind. All could happen or none could happen. It feels like it's a little too early to "accurately" guess just now.

The other potential "sacrifices" that spring to mind are:

Thea some how sacrificing herself some how to save Roy in a way that he ends up as Ollie's sidekick / partner (In this case I don't even think she needs to die necessarily). That seems like a strong possibility.

Moira Queen sacrifices herself in some capacity to stop Malcolm's plans (this seems fairly likely to me just now).

Someone on the island sacrifices themself and seems to die (Slade or Shado in this case, probably most likely Shado in my mind just now).

Diggle sacrifices himself for .... something. Diggle is the biggest mystery right now because he's not based directly on any DC Character.
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Old April 30 2013, 12:18 AM   #839
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
^ No mention of Moore appearing on the show. Had to look it up just in case.

Donald Draper wrote: View Post
Plus there are lot of potential partners for Oliver being setup. Roy Harper obviously and perhaps Laurel.
Nothing yet for Laurel, but it looked like they were setting Roy up to be a sidekick. I'm not well versed on Green Arrow lore, so I didn't know that he's Speedy.

They will probably make him Red Arrow and Thea as speedy
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Old April 30 2013, 03:36 AM   #840
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

I never thought of that. I had been thinking it was going to be an either or thing with Thea and Roy, but I guess there is no reason why they couldn't both end up working with him.
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