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Old April 26 2013, 06:41 AM   #31
Sector 7
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Re: Insects and transporters

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Any episode where an alteration to DNA results in already-existing tissue magically transforming itself is ridiculous.

If you turned all of a person's DNA into blue whale DNA, that person would not transform into a blue whale. He would die.
I do not disagree with you. However, I still love that episode.
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Old April 26 2013, 10:13 AM   #32
Timo
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Re: Insects and transporters

Episodes like "Realm of Fear" where people are shown being active and interactive while within the transporting process are a clear-cut indication that you don't die in that machine. Or at least your death won't cause any sort of a discontinuity you should be worried about - unless you are a seriously sick person (like those who think elevators or mirrors or people named Jessup will be their inevitable undoing) and therefore are seriously incapacitated by your existential fears in the everyday environment.

Funnily enough, we can retroactively establish that the transporter was always like that, in (and especially in) TOS already. After all, a key element of the transporting process is that a person dematerializing in spot A will always rematerialize in a different pose in spot B. This is because of the method of trick photography used, which involves the actor walking to set B and taking a pose that closely but not exactly approximates the one he held on set A. So clearly, the person inside a transporter beam is "in existence" the whole time, and acts and interacts so that his body can assume new poses.

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Old April 27 2013, 04:27 AM   #33
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Insects and transporters

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Any episode where an alteration to DNA results in already-existing tissue magically transforming itself is ridiculous.

If you turned all of a person's DNA into blue whale DNA, that person would not transform into a blue whale. He would die.
But he would die with a bunch of blue-whale specific protein in his body.
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Old April 27 2013, 04:37 PM   #34
Captain McBain
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Re: Insects and transporters

If Chief O'Brien were beamed down into the same space as a fly, would he turn into another Baxter Stockman?
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Old April 27 2013, 10:18 PM   #35
CoveTom
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Re: Insects and transporters

I'm not sure why the transporter is so difficult to accept within the context of established Treknology.

Trek has told us more than once that in the 23rd/24th century, matter and energy are interchangeable. They can be converted back and forth at will. Therefore, when you are transported, nothing is destroyed. You are simply converted from matter to energy, the energy is sent to the destination, and then you are converted from energy back into matter.

Now, that may not make much sense for us today based on our scientific knowledge and level of technology. But it is apparently true within Trek.
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Old April 27 2013, 11:36 PM   #36
Sector 7
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Re: Insects and transporters

CoveTom wrote: View Post
I'm not sure why the transporter is so difficult to accept within the context of established Treknology.

Trek has told us more than once that in the 23rd/24th century, matter and energy are interchangeable. They can be converted back and forth at will. Therefore, when you are transported, nothing is destroyed. You are simply converted from matter to energy, the energy is sent to the destination, and then you are converted from energy back into matter.

Now, that may not make much sense for us today based on our scientific knowledge and level of technology. But it is apparently true within Trek.
This is the way I have understood it, as well. As you said, while our science today cannot make it happen, who says they cannot do it by the time of Star Trek?
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Old April 28 2013, 01:23 AM   #37
Lee Enfield
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Re: Insects and transporters

Gary7 wrote: View Post
LoneDragon wrote: View Post
Anyone ever consider that a transporter disentigrates you and creates an identical copy of you at the destination? Technically anyone who has ever used a transporter is dead...replaced by a line of clones...if it wasnt so, then how do you explain Thomas Riker?
I think the concept of Thomas Riker was the BIG mistake, where the transporter is concerned.

The original idea that I'd seen most people claim how the transporter works is that your entire molecular pattern is scanned and then very rapidly disassembled, beamed to the target location, and reassembled. So, all of your "bits" are sent to the destination--no "killing and copying" going on (otherwise how could Barclay have his "transporter psychosis" bits, partially aware during the beaming?). That's why all of your clothes and equipment goes too. If not... then "local matter" would have to be sucked up and assembled into the destination beam to compromise you and all of your gear. That doesn't make sense.

So... with Thomas Riker, a duplicate is created.... FROM WHAT?? The matter to compose his body had to come from somewhere. And if transporting means there's just one copy of matter being sent... then either Riker would have reassembled back on the planet or back on the ship, or... two of him assembled each from 50% of his original matter (translucent Riker?).

Thus, I just pass off "Pegasus" as a mistake in the series. They do happen, contradictions that can't be easily explained away without major fan wanking. You just have to take it as an error and move on.
The extra matter probably comes from the measurement the transporter crew took, to reestablish the quantum-state matrix of Riker.
While the planets conditions were the reason there were two energy-matrices at two destination(most likely with 50% content each), the transporter crew probably boosted the recieved signal (to compensate for the lost energy of the matrix)over the point to were each matrices had enough coherence(because there would either be two stable matrices or none) and filled in the lost information (reconstructing algorythms). They now created two intact patterns at two destinations.
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