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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.20%
A 161 21.47%
A- 101 13.47%
B+ 83 11.07%
B 59 7.87%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.33%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.33%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.73%
D- 10 1.33%
F 38 5.07%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 27 2013, 08:52 PM   #601
flemm
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Is it that they're "cerebral" or that their outsiders?
Well, cerebral outsiders, perhaps?
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Old April 27 2013, 09:01 PM   #602
Captrek
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Flake wrote: View Post
TMP is the most cerebral imo and was abandoned in favour of what we have now possibly because it did not actually resemble TOS! Specifically the action/adventure !
I think TFF also explores interesting themes and can be very thought provoking if you want it to be. And judging by the reaction to TMP and TFF, it doesn't sell well. TUC also deals with interesting dilemmas.

INS and NEM try to be thought provoking, but fail miserably.
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Old April 27 2013, 09:20 PM   #603
Ryan8bit
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

flemm wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Is it that they're "cerebral" or that their outsiders?
Well, cerebral outsiders, perhaps?
Star Trek needs an outsider that's not so smart. Spock, Data, Odo, Seven, Phlox... they were all so smart! C'mon, give us the dumb outsider so we can answer this question!
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Old April 27 2013, 09:30 PM   #604
Flake
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Spoiler alert for Iron Man 3 and how it relates to a STID spoiler:

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Old April 27 2013, 09:34 PM   #605
Danlav05
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Flake wrote: View Post
Spoiler alert for Iron Man 3 and how it relates to a STID spoiler:

I thought the 'in thing' was fairy tales!

Good grief I'm slow...
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Old April 27 2013, 09:39 PM   #606
Captrek
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
flemm wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Is it that they're "cerebral" or that their outsiders?
Well, cerebral outsiders, perhaps?
Star Trek needs an outsider that's not so smart. Spock, Data, Odo, Seven, Phlox... they were all so smart! C'mon, give us the dumb outsider so we can answer this question!
Worf comes across as not very bright, especially in S1. "Lieutenant! Do you intend to blast a hole in the viewscreen?"
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Old April 27 2013, 10:04 PM   #607
marksound
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Backing up a bit, the complaint that modern Trek is not "cerebral" enough tells me that it has enough action to attract a somewhat more pedestrian audience. As if bringing in people who aren't on the same intellectual level as existing fans will invade their space. New fans will dilute the gene pool, so to speak, and water down fandom so as to become mainstream,thus taking something away from them.

I call these fans Sheldons.

Star Trek is big enough for everyone. If you don't like the new stuff, ignore it and be happy.

"Cerebral" is what nearly shut Trek down before it started. Dialing it back is what made Trek what it became. Be glad for what we have and celebrate the fact that it lives after nearly 50 years.

Now, enough serious talk. I'm going back to making fun of people and looking for spoilers.

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Old April 27 2013, 10:15 PM   #608
Opus
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Spoiler question for those in the know:

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Old April 27 2013, 10:23 PM   #609
Captrek
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
"Cerebral" is what nearly shut Trek down before it started. Dialing it back is what made Trek what it became. Be glad for what we have and celebrate the fact that it lives after nearly 50 years.
Worth noting is that FC, which is pretty much a mindless popcorn flick, was a big hit with critics, mainstream audiences and Trekkers, and the most successful Trek film since TVH. INS and NEM tried to explore "issues" and were such miserable failures they almost killed the franchise.



Opus wrote: View Post
Spoiler question for those in the know:

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Old April 27 2013, 11:32 PM   #610
GMDreia
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Backing up a bit, the complaint that modern Trek is not "cerebral" enough tells me that it has enough action to attract a somewhat more pedestrian audience. As if bringing in people who aren't on the same intellectual level as existing fans will invade their space. New fans will dilute the gene pool, so to speak, and water down fandom so as to become mainstream,thus taking something away from them.
It's kind of sad when we geeks get a hipster mentality. I'm kind of loving the larger fan base, I get to share the things I'm geeked out about with that many more people.
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Old April 27 2013, 11:56 PM   #611
Ryan8bit
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Captrek wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
flemm wrote: View Post

Well, cerebral outsiders, perhaps?
Star Trek needs an outsider that's not so smart. Spock, Data, Odo, Seven, Phlox... they were all so smart! C'mon, give us the dumb outsider so we can answer this question!
Worf comes across as not very bright, especially in S1. "Lieutenant! Do you intend to blast a hole in the viewscreen?"
Ah, very good. Anyways, it was most likely that BillJ was absolutely right about that anyways. Because we had intelligent insiders like Wesley and his mom, and they were hits!

...

GMDreia wrote: View Post
It's kind of sad when we geeks get a hipster mentality.
I liked Star Trek when Jeffrey Hunter was the Captain. Star Trek is so 1966.
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Old April 28 2013, 12:19 AM   #612
flemm
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Captrek wrote: View Post
Worth noting is that FC, which is pretty much a mindless popcorn flick, was a big hit with critics, mainstream audiences and Trekkers, and the most successful Trek film since TVH.
FC isn't mindless at all, though. If it's done well, you can just enjoy it as a flick, and dig deeper if you want to. TWoK is certainly like that. It's not really contradictory. I think that's obvious if you look at films in other genres. For some reason, at least in certain discussions about Trek, there is this false division between the product being intelligent and the product being entertaining.

Like, for example, with comic book movies, often fans *want* the movies to be intelligent. I guess a lot has to do with perception. Superhero comics are perceived as lowbrow and maybe a bit childish, so fans want the movies to be taken seriously. Trek is perceived as nerdy and cerebral, so fans want it to be cool and shed the nerdy label. Something like that. (And maybe both are right, at least partly.)

Anyway, intelligent movies are often the most entertaining.

Last edited by flemm; April 28 2013 at 12:52 AM.
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Old April 28 2013, 12:55 AM   #613
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Captrek wrote: View Post
I think TFF also explores interesting themes and can be very thought provoking if you want it to be. And judging by the reaction to TMP and TFF, it doesn't sell well. TUC also deals with interesting dilemmas.
Actually, ST:TMP sold extremely well!

I'm afraid ST VI left me slightly underwhelmed. Too many elements felt like a colour-by-numbers painting. It was like I could hear the round table discussions by the creators as they put it all together. (Plus whoever wrote the captions under the pics of Cinefantastique's film coverage felt the need to spoilerize the identity of the Enterprise's traitor! I'd chosen not to read the article - which was safe, it turned out - but only the captions. Grrrr.)

It was just that people who knew the original series didn't find enough of the other things they liked about ST.

I came to TMP as a newbie, with only scant knowledge of ST via TAS and some random eps of TOS. While I tried to find someone who wanted to go and see TMP with me, I bought and devoured the novelization in a weekend, and then raced off to see the movie. I cannot convey the incredible immersive feeling of seeing TMP for that first time. I was in that movie. From the moment of walking down the curtained art deco corridors of the cinema, to Ilia's Theme being piperd through the foyers, to the visuals on the screen.

Whether it was cerebral or not, I didn't care. I've always wanted to recapture that feeling in a cinema again, of being totally consumed by a movie and popping out the other end feeling like I'd been on an incredible journey, and only a few films have done it for me as successfully. "Superman: The Movie" (almost), "Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" and, more recently, both of Bad Robot's Trek efforts!

(On a tiny b/w TV, as a teenager in the 70s catching random movies during all-night movie marathons, "Silent Running", "Barbarella" and "Godspell", were almost just as immersive. How I wish I'd seen those on the big screen first...)

So I don't really care how "cerebral" a film is, I want it to suck me in, make me forget I'm in a cinema, and to spit me out the other side with a blissful grin on my face. And to retain memories that stay with me forever.

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
New fans will dilute the gene pool, so to speak, and water down fandom so as to become mainstream,thus taking something away from them.
Well, I was made to feel exactly that in 1980. (Not by everyone, but some.) That if only I'd been there at the beginning, like they were, I'd feel differently about ST:TMP. I'd realise why it was not good "Star Trek".

A few years later, I was president of the club and us (now-so) newbies tried to be more open to the influx of new newbies who were swept into the fold by first ST IV and then the juggernaut that was TNG.

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Because we had intelligent insiders like Wesley and his mom, and they were hits!
You realise, of course, that for the first four seasons, Wil Wheaton got more fan mail than anyone else, followed by Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner.
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Last edited by Therin of Andor; April 28 2013 at 01:49 AM. Reason: more
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Old April 28 2013, 01:12 AM   #614
Opus
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Therin - Your post about being sucked into a movie makes me happy! I wanted to feel the exact same way about The Hobbit (and I did!). I can't wait to see the new Trek film now!
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Old April 28 2013, 01:22 AM   #615
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Therin, I saw TMP when it opened in '79 and I felt the same way. I'd been waiting for years for new Trek, and there it was on the big screen. I was right in the middle of the film, soaking up every second of it. Though it didn't quite hit the mark, it was Trek and it was new. Every time I watch the movie it takes me right back to that place.

Unfortunately, my girlfriend did not appreciate the experience and that was pretty much the end of that. Ah, well. Life goes on.
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