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Old April 27 2013, 09:16 AM   #91
Jim Gamma
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

^How about just Grammar Dictators?
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Old April 27 2013, 10:36 AM   #92
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

How about Grammar Perfectionist?

As a writer myself, I love all the things that language can be tricked, cajoled, seduced and tortured into doing for me. And evolution is a wonderful thing. The strange changes of English over the centuries fascinate and entertain me and I do my best to incorporate that in my own work, even as I occasionally play the role of a gamma ray poking at the linguistic genes.

What I don't like is watching the de-evolution of language through ignorance. Whenever I see people wreck havoc with English, it makes me loose my mind.
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Old April 27 2013, 12:47 PM   #93
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

^^^ May I assume that last sentence was written with deliberate irony?

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Old April 27 2013, 10:01 PM   #94
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

This thread is awesome. Has anyone read "English: The Mother Tongue and How it got that way" by Bill Bryson? In it, he argues many of the same things people are arguing in this thread and makes some interesting observations. In it, I think he even makes a point in saying that before Chaucer, there weren't any rules, that there wasn't any standard, and so you could encounter many different spellings, and that the only sense of standard came when they had to write things down.

It's interesting how the language can evolve. Sometimes it's dialects widening their geography and getting more popular. In some cases, very secluded areas haven't had much change at all, like a certain part of Canada's eastcoast.

I've always found the evolution of language interesting, and I remember a TV show on PBS that I can't remember the name of, but was very interesting and entertaining.

The one pet peeve of mine, and I started seeing this in the mid 90's is the misappropriation of rouge for "rogue.", as in a rouge agent. I originally thought it was a misspelling, and maybe it still is, but I do see it very often and I find it annoying as I'm French-Canadian and know my French pretty well. Rouge = Red. If someone is "red", they're either red in the face, and if literally an agent wearing red, well, they'd stand out a bit much and not be very covert They might as well be a painted target. In French, rouge can also mean "lipstick".
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Old April 27 2013, 10:03 PM   #95
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

MacLeod wrote: View Post
thestrangequark; wrote:
English lost some useful and meaningful words. We lost thee, thou, thy, etc, which had more meaning than the simple you that replaced them, for example.
Thee, Thou and thy haven't been totally lost according to wikipedia.

It is used in parts of Northern England and by Scots

Now how widely it used, is open to debate.
Also used among some religious sects here in the States. And I wouldn't say they had more meaning so much as a slightly different meaning, being singular instead of plural.
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Old April 27 2013, 10:11 PM   #96
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Owain Taggart wrote: View Post


The one pet peeve of mine, and I started seeing this in the mid 90's is the misappropriation of rouge for "rogue.", as in a rouge agent. I originally thought it was a misspelling, and maybe it still is, but I do see it very often and I find it annoying as I'm French-Canadian and know my French pretty well. Rouge = Red. If someone is "red", they're either red in the face, and if literally an agent wearing red, well, they'd stand out a bit much and not be very covert They might as well be a painted target. In French, rouge can also mean "lipstick".
Can't say I've ever come across that particualr misspelling, if I saw the word rouge I would think of the colour red. And It's been a long time since I learned a little French. Rogue and Rouge are two different words.
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Old April 27 2013, 10:26 PM   #97
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Owain Taggart wrote: View Post


The one pet peeve of mine, and I started seeing this in the mid 90's is the misappropriation of rouge for "rogue.", as in a rouge agent. I originally thought it was a misspelling, and maybe it still is, but I do see it very often and I find it annoying as I'm French-Canadian and know my French pretty well. Rouge = Red. If someone is "red", they're either red in the face, and if literally an agent wearing red, well, they'd stand out a bit much and not be very covert They might as well be a painted target. In French, rouge can also mean "lipstick".
Can't say I've ever come across that particualr misspelling, if I saw the word rouge I would think of the colour red. And It's been a long time since I learned a little French. Rogue and Rouge are two different words.

Yep, definitely. That was my point.
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Old April 27 2013, 10:30 PM   #98
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Mobile devices have overtaken the internet. Predictive spelling, used as it is by most people, sucks ass. Pardon my frustration.

People are more concerned with getting their thoughts online than they are with being understood. Excuses like "language evolves, deal with it" or "stupid spell check" are just another way of saying "I don't care what you think. Look at me!" or "I can't spell my way out of a paper freaking bag, but look how smart I am!"

Just take the time to say what you mean without being pretentious (a near impossible task for a lot of Treknoids), and have a good time.

Row, row, row your boat ...
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Old April 27 2013, 10:44 PM   #99
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Now I admit I'm not the world's greatest speller, I was always strong at Maths and Scicences, but even with predicitve text, I still try and make sure it's predicted the right word.
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Old April 28 2013, 01:29 AM   #100
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Kestrel wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
thestrangequark; wrote:
English lost some useful and meaningful words. We lost thee, thou, thy, etc, which had more meaning than the simple you that replaced them, for example.
Thee, Thou and thy haven't been totally lost according to wikipedia.

It is used in parts of Northern England and by Scots

Now how widely it used, is open to debate.
Also used among some religious sects here in the States. And I wouldn't say they had more meaning so much as a slightly different meaning, being singular instead of plural.
Ritualistic use isn't the same as common use, though. Otherwise we could say that modern English still uses the noun->verb word order because people recite "With this ring I thee wed" at weddings. No one says, "I you kiss." Unless you're referring to more isolated sects like the Amish -- do they use those words in everyday language?

As to the meaning, a collective noun is a different meaning to a singular noun. Modern Standard English, with the exception of the regional Scots and Northern English noted, does not have a distinct word for plural 'you', as 'ye' once was. As I understand it, thee, thy, thou, etcetera, were also context-specific, in the same way that the use of vous and tu in French connote formality, or watishi, atashi, boku in Japanese (although those change depending on the speaker and not who is being spoken to). There is one exception I know of, which is the American southern plural you: y'all and all y'all. I'd be fascinated to learn of more exceptions, though!
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Mobile devices have overtaken the internet. Predictive spelling, used as it is by most people, sucks ass. Pardon my frustration.

People are more concerned with getting their thoughts online than they are with being understood. Excuses like "language evolves, deal with it" or "stupid spell check" are just another way of saying "I don't care what you think. Look at me!" or "I can't spell my way out of a paper freaking bag, but look how smart I am!"

Just take the time to say what you mean without being pretentious (a near impossible task for a lot of Treknoids), and have a good time.

Row, row, row your boat ...
This post is the most hilariously ironic thing I've read all day.
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Old April 28 2013, 02:16 AM   #101
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

If you have any typing skills whatsoever you're better off disabling predictive text on your smartphone. Ever since I've killed that cursed interloper, my texts have been much improved. Occasionally, I'll mistype something and have a minor typo. But, that's a fuckton better than having the piece of shit make wholesale word substitutions that completely strip away intended meaning.

On older cellphones I did like T9 predictive text. It worked reasonably well once I rounded out its dictionary. Most importantly, it was extremely easy to switch to manual entry when it lost the plot.
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Old April 28 2013, 05:05 AM   #102
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
Kestrel wrote: View Post
Also used among some religious sects here in the States. And I wouldn't say they had more meaning so much as a slightly different meaning, being singular instead of plural.
Ritualistic use isn't the same as common use, though. Otherwise we could say that modern English still uses the noun->verb word order because people recite "With this ring I thee wed" at weddings. No one says, "I you kiss." Unless you're referring to more isolated sects like the Amish -- do they use those words in everyday language?
Right, the Amish is who I was thinking of (and other similar groups like Old Order Mennonites and possibly Hutterites) that still use those words in common language. There's also some ritualistic-yet-everyday use (if that makes sense) among a certain segment of Quakers I know.

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
As to the meaning, a collective noun is a different meaning to a singular noun. Modern Standard English, with the exception of the regional Scots and Northern English noted, does not have a distinct word for plural 'you', as 'ye' once was. As I understand it, thee, thy, thou, etcetera, were also context-specific, in the same way that the use of vous and tu in French connote formality, or watishi, atashi, boku in Japanese (although those change depending on the speaker and not who is being spoken to). There is one exception I know of, which is the American southern plural you: y'all and all y'all. I'd be fascinated to learn of more exceptions, though!
Well, "you" used to be the distinct word for plural "you" alongside "ye." Thee, thou, thy, etc. are all second-person singular , so unless I'm totally mistaken it's more that we lost a singular "you" and simply expanded the upper-class/formal and plural second-person pronoun to the singular and lower-class/informal as well. I've never been entirely clear on the thee/thou/thy rules, but yeah there's particular ways they were used as I understand.

Also... gahhhhhhh "all y'all".... gahhhhh. "Y'all" is perfectly good! And it's spelled "ain't," not "ai'nt"!!!! WARRRGARRBBBLLLLE /rant

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Old April 28 2013, 05:09 AM   #103
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

^Interesting info regarding the Amish, Quakers, and Mennonites. I wondered if it might be one (or all) of those to whom you were referring -- thanks for sharing! I have some Quaker friends, but they speak in typical American English -- at least around me.

As to y'all and all y'all, y'all is for addressing a small group of people and all y'all is for addressing a large group of people!
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Old April 28 2013, 05:16 AM   #104
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Yoda wrote: View Post
If you have any typing skills whatsoever you're better off disabling predictive text on your smartphone. Ever since I've killed that cursed interloper, my texts have been much improved. Occasionally, I'll mistype something and have a minor typo. But, that's a fuckton better than having the piece of shit make wholesale word substitutions that completely strip away intended meaning.

Haha yeah, definitely. I do have it disabled because I type faster without it anyway, and it's less distracting. Just yesterday, someone was asking me how to spell "bottle", and then a few moments go by and I say, "Better that than having the predictive text come up with "bootie". Because you so know it would.
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Old April 28 2013, 05:23 AM   #105
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Re: Grammar Nazi Thread: Smooshing Words Together

Owain Taggart wrote: View Post
Yoda wrote: View Post
If you have any typing skills whatsoever you're better off disabling predictive text on your smartphone. Ever since I've killed that cursed interloper, my texts have been much improved. Occasionally, I'll mistype something and have a minor typo. But, that's a fuckton better than having the piece of shit make wholesale word substitutions that completely strip away intended meaning.

Haha yeah, definitely. I do have it disabled because I type faster without it anyway, and it's less distracting. Just yesterday, someone was asking me how to spell "bottle", and then a few moments go by and I say, "Better that than having the predictive text come up with "bootie". Because you so know it would.
I would never disable my autocorrect. One of the great joys in life is the hilarious non sequitur of autocorrect. I find the funny far outweighs the annoyance.
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