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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old April 27 2013, 07:36 PM   #106
Allyn Gibson
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
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Moffat talks the last few episodes of this series on the BBC's website, closing with this about "The Name of the Doctor":

The episode is called The Name of the Doctor and involves our hero in a conflict that is very, very personal to him. Usually he’s saving other people, but this time he might be the one who needs to be saved. We’ll also find out what makes his new companion so impossible and there’s a surprise that no one has got right so far, and one that will change the course of Who forever!
Surprise that will change Who history? There's a forgotten Doctor.
Ah, but people have guessed the forgotten Doctor. So, according to Moffat that's not right. Yeah, I know, we can't always take him at his word . . .
Remember, Moffat's the man who said the ending of A Good Man Goes To War was a game-changer that would change the characters forever. Remember, Moffat's the man who said no one would ever figure out River's origins. Quite simply, Moffat talks his show and what he's doing like his audience is idiots.

(Hell, Moffat says no one will figure out how Sherlock survived, but I have no doubt that there are tens of thousands of people who have workable theories that match what Moffat did. Unless he pulls a Sledgehammer and simply ignores the problem.)

In Moffat's defense, he's not talking to the hardcore, he's not talking to the people who tear him apart on Gallifrey Base week after week, he's not talking to the people who stalk the sets, etc. He's talking to the casual viewer, the Not-We. And for the casual viewer, the notion that absolutely, positively, without a doubt Matt Smith is the eleventh Doctor is an incontrovertible fact, and the idea that there's a forgotten number that turns that incontrovertible fact on its head would be inconceivable.
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Old April 27 2013, 07:43 PM   #107
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

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(Hell, Moffat says no one will figure out how Sherlock survived, but I have no doubt that there are tens of thousands of people who have workable theories that match what Moffat did.
In this one instance I'm willing to bet that no one guessed it would involve Derren Sodding Brown hypnotising Bilbo.
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Old April 27 2013, 07:46 PM   #108
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

StCoop wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
(Hell, Moffat says no one will figure out how Sherlock survived, but I have no doubt that there are tens of thousands of people who have workable theories that match what Moffat did.
In this one instance I'm willing to bet that no one guessed it would involve Derren Sodding Brown hypnotising Bilbo.
I don't remember him in "Reichenbach Fall." Don't tell me Moffat's pulled something out of his ass.

With Doyle that was okay, because Doyle never, ever expected to write another Sherlock Holmes story. But if Moffat's going to show us that the solution involves characters and situations we didn't see, then he hasn't played fair with his audience.

Wow, that will so not go over well with Sherlock fandom.
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Old April 27 2013, 07:47 PM   #109
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

StCoop wrote: View Post
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Ah, but people have guessed the forgotten Doctor. So, according to Moffat that's not right. Yeah, I know, we can't always take him at his word . .
He supposedly doesn't read Forums so how would he know?

Plus he wouldn't admit it had been leaked even if it had, would he?
He wouldn't have to say anything about it at all. Instead, he's explicitly stated that the correct surprise hasn't been discussed.

StCoop wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Yep, I agree with this. If this premise is correct, it needs to involve an established Doctor. If Eccleston wasn't available, he should've gotten a classic Doctor.
If the story revolves around the Time War that kind of limits the choices.
As discussed, it doesn't have to revolve around the Time War.

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Old April 27 2013, 08:06 PM   #110
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

What do people expect him to say "A lot of people have pretty much guessed it?"*


* if the themes being discussed here are pretty much right.
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Old April 27 2013, 08:48 PM   #111
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^ No, he could just not comment on it.
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Old April 28 2013, 04:52 PM   #112
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

"We’ll also find out what makes his new companion so impossible and there’s a surprise that no one has got right so far, and one that will change the course of Who forever!"

I think it would be very difficult for anything to leave up to that. A lost Doctor would not change the course of Who for me. Nor would the older Doctors getting one of their younger incarnations to liven up. Both would be a very pleasant to see, but would not make me feel differently about the Doctor in any way.

To surprise me, it would have to turn out that the Doctor is dead, never escaped the Moment, his name is Ninth and his last incarnation was John Hurt. That kind of thing.

I suspect that Moffat is exaggerating, but I still hope (and fear) that he might be able to pull something that would actually surprise us. But I can think of nothing that could do it.
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Old April 28 2013, 05:01 PM   #113
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

In the Radio Times interview on the BBC site right now he uses the exact same "we really mean it this time" phrasing that he used with the "one of these people really permanently dies" in The Impossible Astronaut publicity.

Which was hyperbolic bullshit, of course.
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Old April 28 2013, 06:35 PM   #114
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Yeah, but then he was going for something impossible. The Doctor really dying would end the series. And even if he ended the series, someone else would eventually resurrect the Doctor. Revealing something unexpected that changes the way we view the Doctor is doable. This time he can deliver on his promise if he really wants to.
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Old April 28 2013, 06:38 PM   #115
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

It's unlikely - for as much as I like the current series it is highly formulaic in a way that different era of the previous series were not (well for at least the first four Doctors at least and in particularly between two-three-four). It's now more like big two comics in that he can give the illusion of change within a certain structure but I doubt he can make any major changes.
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Old April 28 2013, 06:38 PM   #116
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

I just hope it's an unexpectedly good show, I'm not so worried if the twist isn't predicted.
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Old April 28 2013, 06:43 PM   #117
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
It's unlikely - for as much as I like the current series it is highly formulaic in a way that different era of the previous series were not (well for at least the first four Doctors at least and in particularly between two-three-four).
Do you really feel so? The show now is more formulaic than the second Doctor's "base-under-siege of the week" show? More formulaic than the third Doctor's "the Master was behind it all" show? I don't understand where you're coming from at all.
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Old April 28 2013, 06:47 PM   #118
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
JoeZhang wrote: View Post
It's unlikely - for as much as I like the current series it is highly formulaic in a way that different era of the previous series were not (well for at least the first four Doctors at least and in particularly between two-three-four).
Do you really feel so? The show now is more formulaic than the second Doctor's "base-under-siege of the week" show? More formulaic than the third Doctor's "the Master was behind it all" show? I don't understand where you're coming from at all.
I mean shifts in format between Doctors (or rather production eras as they don't map as neatly as Doctors) rather than within Doctors - if that makes sense? the Unit Era is clearly not the same as the 'base under siege' era or what Baker was doing later. I don't really see the tonal difference between the sorts of adventures that Nine, Ten and Eleven have had.
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Old April 28 2013, 08:33 PM   #119
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

The show's changed all the time between eras, in both tone and plot state, more prominent examples being, Season 22 was some adult psycho show, Time War made Doctors emo. Now it aims at the, especially recently popular tv niche of quality-over-quantity, whilst the preceding era went closer to the classical shitload of episodes direction of say, Trek when you take into account that era's series had little change in between.
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Old April 28 2013, 10:42 PM   #120
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Dammit if there is going to be a lost doctor it should be David Warner not John Hurt (not there is anything wrong with John Hurt).

Anyway lost Doctor sure why not more oppurtunities for Big Finish.
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