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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old April 24 2013, 03:03 PM   #76
Allyn Gibson
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

The latest DWM quotes Moffat that they have "just finished shooting the actual completed ending."

There's no telling when Moffat would have written that, truly, but I suspect it probably wasn't before Christmas when series 7 wrapped.

This leads me to wonder if he's alluding to filming for the finale that was done early in the shooting block for the anniversary special. Or possibly filming that was done on An Adventure in Space and Time's sets. Neither would surprise me.
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Old April 24 2013, 07:39 PM   #77
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

I kind of like the concept of Clara being a TARDIS... it would make a little sense as to why Sexy doesn't appear to like her...

My money (or 100 pounds) is on Vyvyan. Hopefully his kidnapped friends are Rick, Neil, and Mike; and the kidnapper is played by Jerzei Balowski.

That or Rassilon.
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Old April 25 2013, 02:04 PM   #78
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

I'm gonna be disappointed now if Clara isn't a TARDIS. I like the idea of her being something other than a normal modern day human that happens to get fractured in time during the finale. That kinda makes her just a much prettier S1 Rose with her own Bad Wolf arc, albeit one that makes sense.

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Isn't the point at which you remind us you have got a City and Guilds certificate in film ?
I wish it was the point at which your posts become vaguely comprehensible.


The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Actually he'd probably be angry whatever we say about anything.
True but he's one of the best Doctor Who writers. Dead Romance being the peak of his work.
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Old April 25 2013, 07:17 PM   #79
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

DalekJim wrote: View Post
True but he's one of the best Doctor Who writers. Dead Romance being the peak of his work.
Christmas on a Rational Planet seems to progress the story very slowly - I'm ridiculously slow reader and spent hours just to get past the prologue and maybe a third of the first chapter (of nine). Will I get more story out of the other books?
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Old April 25 2013, 07:34 PM   #80
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Konata Izumi wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
True but he's one of the best Doctor Who writers. Dead Romance being the peak of his work.
Christmas on a Rational Planet seems to progress the story very slowly - I'm ridiculously slow reader and spent hours just to get past the prologue and maybe a third of the first chapter (of nine). Will I get more story out of the other books?
Miles himself calls Christmas on a Rational Planet "crap." (Which is almost the book's initials.)

You will get more out of his other books. (Though I'm not sure about This Town Will Never Let Us Go, as I've never been able to finish that.)
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Old April 25 2013, 07:46 PM   #81
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

It's very rough and unfocused but I think Christmas On A Rational Planet is a very good novel. Lots of stuff that is then better explored in Miles' subsequent books.
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Old April 27 2013, 01:10 PM   #82
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Moffat talks the last few episodes of this series on the BBC's website, closing with this about "The Name of the Doctor":

The episode is called The Name of the Doctor and involves our hero in a conflict that is very, very personal to him. Usually he’s saving other people, but this time he might be the one who needs to be saved. We’ll also find out what makes his new companion so impossible and there’s a surprise that no one has got right so far, and one that will change the course of Who forever!
That tracks with the rumored plot synopsis.

The personal aspect? His dead TARDIS.

Needing to be saved? Clara jumping into an infinity of timestreams.

Why Clara's impossible? She's been splintered through time.

Surprise that will change Who history? There's a forgotten Doctor.
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Old April 27 2013, 01:33 PM   #83
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Right which is why it's possible when we get his name it is as simply as 'Twelve'.
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Old April 27 2013, 01:44 PM   #84
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Surprise that will change Who history? There's a forgotten Doctor.
If true, that negates all the rumours that John Hurt was cast as a last minute replacement when Eccleston backed out. This seems more like something that would have been planned.
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Old April 27 2013, 01:48 PM   #85
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
If true, that negates all the rumours that John Hurt was cast as a last minute replacement when Eccleston backed out. This seems more like something that would have been planned.
Or they changed the nature of the revelation. Moffat did say in another recent interview that they'd just finished shooting the real ending of the episode.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:17 PM   #86
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Surprise that will change Who history? There's a forgotten Doctor.
If true, that negates all the rumours that John Hurt was cast as a last minute replacement when Eccleston backed out. This seems more like something that would have been planned.
As StCoop says, plans could have changed due to availability. At the end of "The Name of the Doctor," perhaps we were to have the shock reveal of Christopher Eccleston. Now, we'll have the shock reveal of John Hurt.

I'm starting to wonder, assuming the rumors that Hurt is the Time War Doctor are true, if the reason the Doctor escaped the Moment and the Time Lock that trapped Gallifrey is because of the intervention of his future selves. In other words, the Doctor wasn't lucky in escaping the fate of his people; instead, he helped himself escape. (It's a recursive problem like the Doctor escaping from the Pandorica -- cause happens because of effect -- but that's a Moffat trick that he's used a number of times.)

If that's the case, then Hurt could be fulfilling the Eccleston role. We would have learned that Eccleston fought the Time War and was trapped in the Time Lock until Smith and/or Tennant released him. Now, we'll learn that it was Hurt who fought the Time War and was trapped in the Time Lock until Smith and/or Tennant released him.

How does this track with reports that this is a story that Moffat has wanted to tell for a long time? I don't think it's the "forgotten Doctor" aspect that Moffat's wanted to tell. I think it's something else entirely.

Perhaps the core of the story that Moffat has carried around for years went like this. Let's suppose there's a Doctor who's tired and weary and doesn't want to go on any more. He's ready to give up on life. And then, like Clarence in It's a Wonderful Life, another Doctor, a future Doctor no less, shows up and tells him that he shouldn't feel so bad. There's so much fun to be had in the universe. There are awesome things to do, fantastic places to see. The Doctor really has made a difference. And, in a meta commentary way, even if he doesn't like how things are going now, they will change in a few years, possibly for the better. From here, you have a romp. The Doctors run around, revisiting things or doing new things (giving the story a reason to have all the monsters) as the older Doctor tries to convince his younger and more cynical self that things are okay and he should go on. And by the end, the cynical younger Doctor has had a change of heart and he feels like he can go on again.

That kind of framework doesn't require a forgotten Doctor. Heck, it doesn't even require the Time War. It just requires a tired and grumpy Doctor. There are points where you could have done this story with Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker, etc.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:41 PM   #87
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Perhaps the core of the story that Moffat has carried around for years went like this. Let's suppose there's a Doctor who's tired and weary and doesn't want to go on any more. He's ready to give up on life. And then, like Clarence in It's a Wonderful Life, another Doctor, a future Doctor no less, shows up and tells him that he shouldn't feel so bad. There's so much fun to be had in the universe. There are awesome things to do, fantastic places to see. The Doctor really has made a difference. And, in a meta commentary way, even if he doesn't like how things are going now, they will change in a few years, possibly for the better. From here, you have a romp. The Doctors run around, revisiting things or doing new things (giving the story a reason to have all the monsters) as the older Doctor tries to convince his younger and more cynical self that things are okay and he should go on. And by the end, the cynical younger Doctor has had a change of heart and he feels like he can go on again.

That kind of framework doesn't require a forgotten Doctor. Heck, it doesn't even require the Time War. It just requires a tired and grumpy Doctor. There are points where you could have done this story with Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker, etc.
I like that premise but I would only find that effective with an established, already known Doctor, even if it's The Eighth Doctor. While I'm not completely against John Hurt being a forgotten Doctor, I wouldn't want him to be utilized in this manner because the emotional impact is not as strong, especially for the 50th anniversary.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:50 PM   #88
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Emh wrote: View Post
I like that premise but I would only find that effective with an established, already known Doctor, even if it's The Eighth Doctor. While I'm not completely against John Hurt being a forgotten Doctor, I wouldn't want him to be utilized in this manner because the emotional impact is not as strong, especially for the 50th anniversary.
That's fair.

This premise would be crazy effective for the ninth Doctor as a story that leads into "Rose."
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Old April 27 2013, 03:12 PM   #89
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Perhaps the core of the story that Moffat has carried around for years went like this. Let's suppose there's a Doctor who's tired and weary and doesn't want to go on any more. He's ready to give up on life. And then, like Clarence in It's a Wonderful Life, another Doctor, a future Doctor no less, shows up and tells him that he shouldn't feel so bad. There's so much fun to be had in the universe. There are awesome things to do, fantastic places to see. The Doctor really has made a difference.
Funnily enough there is a character called Clarence in the Finale. He even gets the lead role in the "Prequel".

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/releases/clarence-and-whispermen
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Old April 27 2013, 03:14 PM   #90
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Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Emh wrote: View Post
I like that premise but I would only find that effective with an established, already known Doctor, even if it's The Eighth Doctor. While I'm not completely against John Hurt being a forgotten Doctor, I wouldn't want him to be utilized in this manner because the emotional impact is not as strong, especially for the 50th anniversary.
That's fair.

This premise would be crazy effective for the ninth Doctor as a story that leads into "Rose."
It kinda craps on the guilt Eccelston went through and that it was Rose who helped him heal, which has been a big theme throughout the RTD years
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