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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 141 19.11%
A 160 21.68%
A- 99 13.41%
B+ 82 11.11%
B 58 7.86%
B- 27 3.66%
C+ 40 5.42%
C 38 5.15%
C- 24 3.25%
D+ 11 1.49%
D 13 1.76%
D- 10 1.36%
F 35 4.74%
Voters: 738. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 27 2013, 01:27 PM   #571
BillJ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ovation wrote: View Post

And by the way (and I can't believe I have to even point this out), Star Trek is NOT a religion. It's not even an "institution" in the sense you are implying. It is entertainment--for the masses. Anyone who thinks it was ever something other than that is, well, wrong.
Well we all know that Gene put babes in seductive clothing for the betterment of humanity...
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Old April 27 2013, 01:34 PM   #572
Ovation
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

It certainly enhanced my appreciation of Trek as I moved from childhood to adolescence. Gotta thank him for that.
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Old April 27 2013, 01:46 PM   #573
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Well I say again that paramount spending hundreds of millions of dollars means this particular outing of Star Trek is not going to 100% resemble one of the episodes. You should go and enjoy the spectacle and in supporting this Star Trek and ensuring it becomes profitable perhaps you will get a television show that has the opportunity to explore the things you want but even then, that TV show is not going to be the same as the trek show you preferred to watch.

Due to changes in the world that have taken place since the last trek show and the changes in production techniques and the changing tv situation etc etc in short, you may never be satisfied and its time you moved the goalposts with the rest of us.

Lets say Star Trek started in the 30s and looked like Flash Gordon of that time, would you want Trek to stay the same as that 1930s serial forever? What if Star Trek was from 1901 and featured the enterprise looking like a giant bullet shot out of a giant cannon? Powered by steam engines? Should it remain that way forever?
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Old April 27 2013, 01:48 PM   #574
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I am giving an example from what I am reading. I am not implying that Star Trek is a religion; although, at times, it borders on being a cult. ("...a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc...." (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cult))

Who lies between the people and the artists in the movie making industry? The corporations. Who gives their approval to fund a movie? The corporations, or the people? Who regulates the content of a movie? The corporations, or the people? The people are the last to see the film. Corporations put their money into projects that they hope will succeed.
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Old April 27 2013, 01:55 PM   #575
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I am giving an example from what I am reading. I am not implying that Star Trek is a religion; although, at times, it borders on being a cult. ("...a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc...." (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cult))

Who lies between the people and the artists in the movie making industry? The corporations. Who gives their approval to fund a movie? The corporations, or the people? Who regulates the content of a movie? The corporations, or the people? The people are the last to see the film. Corporations put their money into projects that they hope will succeed.
You want a tinfoil hat with that? You know what? If you're so concerned about this corporation thing: Why don't you disconnect from the Internet. These 'corporations' control most of the routers that supply bandwidth. So yeah, if you're really serious about this; better disconnect, and be a hermit.
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Old April 27 2013, 01:58 PM   #576
Flake
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

The people make the decisions by spending money. The corporations exist to make money and give the people what they want. Nemesis and Enterprise where not profitable because people did not go to see them so Paramount responded to that by turning to JJ Abrams to reboot Trek and that gamble worked.
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Old April 27 2013, 01:59 PM   #577
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I know and accept that we live in a rapidly changing world, in terms of technology. This isn't the past where the next big thing in technology could take decades, hundreds, or thousands of years to emerge. I am, however, turned off by the depictions of the characters in the JJ Abrams universe. And, I am not feeling that Chris Pine has the gravitas to carry the role of Captain James Kirk. I see him as a corporate pretty boy.

I am not a conspiracy theorist. I don't put faith into conspiracies. I put my faith into reality. The people who pay money to see the films are rewarding the corporations for their decisions, and the corporations benefit from the money. However, as long as people support how a product is marketed and produced and everything else that goes with that product, corporations won't have incentive to change their ways. I view corporations as entities, much like I view people as entities.

People are bemoaning that there isn't innovation in Star Trek. Well, as long as people go to these movies, and put down money for films that are not innovative, they are working against their own interests.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:01 PM   #578
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post

Who lies between the people and the artists in the movie making industry? The corporations. Who gives their approval to fund a movie? The corporations, or the people? Who regulates the content of a movie? The corporations, or the people? The people are the last to see the film. Corporations put their money into projects that they hope will succeed.
Which means every creator of Trek has/are currently "servant(s) of the corporations" starting with Roddenberry. So it's a very unfair criticism to lob at Abrams.

Even Joss Whedon, who had a great success with The Avengers, is a servant of the corporations. I guarantee that his first draft script didn't get made and if he went in with the idea of killing off someone like Iron Man, Marvel would've told him to get lost as he wasn't going to screw around with something that was making them a ton of money.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:03 PM   #579
Ovation
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
I am giving an example from what I am reading. I am not implying that Star Trek is a religion; although, at times, it borders on being a cult. ("...a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc...." (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cult))

Who lies between the people and the artists in the movie making industry? The corporations. Who gives their approval to fund a movie? The corporations, or the people? Who regulates the content of a movie? The corporations, or the people? The people are the last to see the film. Corporations put their money into projects that they hope will succeed.
And…? Unless filmmakers are independently wealthy and finance their own projects OR manage to convince investors to contribute to the making of a film without expectation of a return on their investment (save the satisfaction of supporting an artistic endeavour)--two scenarios that are not unheard of, but are certainly unusual--then filmmakers are beholden to those who pay the bills.

This isn't new or particular to film, incidentally. Do you think all those amazing Renaissance artists in Italy were simply doing what they wanted (either for themselves or the public) with no regard to the people footing the bill? If so, think again.

Entertainment is a business, not a charity. The people (individually or as corporations) who put up the money to produce a film generally expect some sort of return. They understand the general risk--the audience may not like it, so they might not make their money back--but they make aggregate bets to remain profitable overall. The more money is involved in a production, the greater the risk. Frankly, I'm amazed that big budget productions have the variety and creativity that they actually provide, given the financial stakes. I'm willing to concede that such films are not as daring as small budget indie films in terms of stretching the creative envelope. It would be illogical to think otherwise (as it is also the same in just about any artistic endeavour). But for every risky, envelope-pushing movie I've enjoyed (Darren Aronofsky's Pi, for example), I've also enjoyed being one of the hoi polloi and being entertained by Trek 09 or Raiders of the Lost Ark or… It is totally unreasonable to expect studios to risk 100s of millions on something like Aronofsky's Pi--and Trek, in all of its incarnations, has NEVER been a risk-taking envelope stretcher. It has always aimed for (albeit with varying degrees of success) entertaining the masses. Let's not pretend it was ever otherwise.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:04 PM   #580
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I see him as a corporate pretty boy.
At least his co-actors in this film don't have a bitter relationship with him, unlike that other Kirk.


Seriously, people like throwback should be put in the Nexus, where everyday they watch their beloved Episodes and movies, and time doesn't move forward.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:04 PM   #581
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
I know and accept that we live in a rapidly changing world, in terms of technology. This isn't the past where the next big thing in technology could take decades, hundreds, or thousands of years to emerge. I am, however, turned off by the depictions of the characters in the JJ Abrams universe. And, I am not feeling that Chris Pine has the gravitas to carry the role of Captain James Kirk. I see him as a corporate pretty boy.
But this is a different Jim Kirk. His life was turned upside down by Nero killing his father on the day of his birth and his mother left him behind with a dodgy uncle whilst she stayed in starfleet. This Jim Kirk is also younger than the one in TOS and less experienced. It is a fresh and different interpretation instead of same old IMHO. I did not want someone to come in and do their best Shatner impression.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:10 PM   #582
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
I know and accept that we live in a rapidly changing world, in terms of technology. This isn't the past where the next big thing in technology could take decades, hundreds, or thousands of years to emerge. I am, however, turned off by the depictions of the characters in the JJ Abrams universe. And, I am not feeling that Chris Pine has the gravitas to carry the role of Captain James Kirk. I see him as a corporate pretty boy.
Then why fret over the movie at all? Clearly its premise and production style don't appeal to you. That is certainly your right and no one should tell you you are wrong not to like the current way Trek is being made. If it bothered me as much as it seems to bother you, I would make a very simple choice--not watch the movie. And another simple choice--not get all worked up about it. It's only a movie. And there are many other movies, books, TV programmes, albums, concerts, plays and so on, out there to entertain us. Take advantage of those and enjoy rather than getting overly worked up about this particular movie.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:12 PM   #583
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Good advice. Adieu.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:45 PM   #584
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Since the topic is wavering, anyway (WHERE ARE THOSE SPOILERS, PEOPLE?!), there were some great stories in all Trek series, but exactly what were the episodes of TOS (or TNG) that actually "made one think" or were cerebral? The ones that transcended even a great episode of any other weekly drama or action-adventure show?

I've watched TOS until I can quote lines of dialogue by heart. Friends and I dissected episodes of TNG and later DS9 every Monday morning over coffee all through grad school (we were an exciting lot). I gave VOY a chance but left the ship after two years, and I was aboard the NX-1 a while too, before making my excuses and leaving. As far as any episodes coming back to me that truly met the high standards the mythology sets, I got nothing.

I'm not trying to provoke an argument or set people up to flame their tastes, but honestly, what were the episodes that were not just good strories, but were cerebral and thought provoking? What's the list?
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Old April 27 2013, 02:47 PM   #585
Therin of Andor
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
I am not feeling that Chris Pine has the gravitas to carry the role of Captain James Kirk. I see him as a corporate pretty boy.
I think William Shatner would recognize that he, himself, was a "corporate pretty boy" of the 1960s, who got the job on "Star Trek" because the wife of the show's previous "corporate pretty boy", Jeffrey Hunter, wanted him to try his luck as a motion picture star instead of a TV star.

Franklin wrote: View Post
what were the episodes that were not just good stories, but were cerebral and thought provoking? What's the list?
That kinda infers there's no message to debate in the JJ films. To me, the 2009 film challenges us to ponder nurture vs nature (with Kirk), and this theme is certainly revisited in STiD. A Kirk who grows up without the influence of a strong father figure, and then how he starts to change under the mentorship of Pike. (Starts to change.)

Similarly, we have a Spock who has not spent 18 years not talking to his father, and taps into a different aspect of his half human, half Vulcan makeup, presumably rejecting the Vulcan girl he was bonded with in favour of an Earth woman.

McCoy of both timelines suffered a painful divorce. It'll be interesting to see if he faces new challenges in the next film.

There is plenty to discuss; it's not all 'splosions at all. I guess studying the differences in the two timelines is similar to the message of "Mirror, Mirror", and perhaps "The Enemy Within". Do changed circumstances change our personalities, our opportunities, our fates? How do we balance the facets of our personality, those little devils and angels sitting on our shoulders, influencing how we react in situations?
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