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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 25 2013, 02:02 AM   #16
The Wormhole
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

The Keeper wrote: View Post
^Why would they paint a ship intended to be stealthy white? It's faceted shape implies it's able to hide from sensors so doesn't it make sense to visually conceal it as well?

...Wait, you're just teasing again. Right?
No, this time I actually am serious. I didn't know this ship is intended to be a stealth ship. Doesn't being twice the size of the oversized Enterprise work against that? A stealth ship should as small as possible, to better avoid detection. If Starfleet wants to use this behemoth for stealth purposes, wouldn't they just be better off trying to develop cloaking technology? They can, since the movie is set over sixty years before the Treaty of Algeron was signed.
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Old April 25 2013, 02:04 AM   #17
George Steinbrenner
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

I never saw much of a point to painting a starship black. How many times do people on a starship actually look out a window to see another ship? My guess is, not often.
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Old April 25 2013, 02:06 AM   #18
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
How many times do people on a starship actually look out a window to see another ship? My guess is, not often.
It's probably more common in a timeline where the bridges of most starships have a giant windshield instead of a viewscreen.
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Old April 25 2013, 02:17 AM   #19
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
The Keeper wrote: View Post
^Why would they paint a ship intended to be stealthy white? It's faceted shape implies it's able to hide from sensors so doesn't it make sense to visually conceal it as well?

...Wait, you're just teasing again. Right?
No, this time I actually am serious. I didn't know this ship is intended to be a stealth ship. Doesn't being twice the size of the oversized Enterprise work against that? A stealth ship should as small as possible, to better avoid detection. If Starfleet wants to use this behemoth for stealth purposes, wouldn't they just be better off trying to develop cloaking technology? They can, since the movie is set over sixty years before the Treaty of Algeron was signed.
I don't "know" that for sure either. I only sought out one spoiler after the premier () other than that, I remain spoiler free. I was just speculating based on its similar shape to known stealth ships.

I see the point but there could also be a needed intimidation factor here. Maybe a potential enemy has a big ship so they felt the need to go bigger than they did. Again, just speculating here.
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Old April 25 2013, 02:25 AM   #20
greenlight
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

Apologies in advance if this has been discussed elsewhere but is there any info/speculation on the small, roundish ship that the crew uses on Kronos? Captain's yacht maybe? A newer shuttle? A loaner from starfleet? A klingon ship they acquired/commandeered/stole?
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Old April 25 2013, 03:11 AM   #21
aeriolewinters
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

Most likely an unarmed civilian ship.
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Old April 25 2013, 04:07 AM   #22
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

greenlight wrote: View Post
Apologies in advance if this has been discussed elsewhere but is there any info/speculation on the small, roundish ship that the crew uses on Kronos? Captain's yacht maybe? A newer shuttle? A loaner from starfleet? A klingon ship they acquired/commandeered/stole?
Corellian light freighter?
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Old April 25 2013, 04:49 AM   #23
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

Trekkies will bitch about anything that doesn't suit their preconceived notions. Once their sensibilities are offended, they figure out reasons that the offending factoid "doesn't make sense" or is somehow illogical or implausible while swallowing whole any ridiculous idea that does suit their expectations.

Yes, "Vengeance" has not been an uncommon name for naval vessels over the last several centuries. Seems to have a more distinguished lineage than a silly name like "Excelsior," at that.

Starships in Abrams's movies are "a ridiculous size?" Only if you assume that oldTrek is some kind of expert tutorial on how real starships would be constructed; otherwise, no one has any idea what's a plausible size for an FTL vessel constructed three or four centuries from now.

What does Starfleet want "vengeance" for? I just can't imagine - oh, maybe they let the Vulcans name it.
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Old April 25 2013, 07:48 AM   #24
Lord Garth, FOI
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

Vengeance is actually a rather storied US navy vessel name
And since this sucker is bigger than an Imperial star Destroyer I think it has a good ring too it
Would you rather they called it the USS Flowerpower??
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Old April 25 2013, 08:36 AM   #25
topas
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

greenlight wrote: View Post
Apologies in advance if this has been discussed elsewhere but is there any info/speculation on the small, roundish ship that the crew uses on Kronos? Captain's yacht maybe? A newer shuttle? A loaner from starfleet? A klingon ship they acquired/commandeered/stole?
It's definately a human design, as the controls and displays are same style as we see on the Kelvin / Kobayashi Maru test bridge and older shuttles (like Pike flew to Narada). OR it may be laziness of the design department.
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Old April 25 2013, 08:55 AM   #26
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

Why don't we just call it USS Evil Overlord instead?
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Old April 25 2013, 10:04 AM   #27
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

The Vengeance of Khan.



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Old April 25 2013, 10:41 AM   #28
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

The Vengeance doesn't work for me because it incorporates elements of aviation and maritime technology, while ignoring what has been established in previous Star Trek. Planes are painted black to reduce temperatures, i.e. the Blackbird. Starships have in-built coolant systems that handle that task. The shape of the airframe on the Nighthawk is for evading radar. Starships don't need angles; they have sensors that can be programmed to hide their signature. And the difference between a battleship and a heavy cruiser is that the former was a heavily armed and armored vessel with an unremarkable speed and maneuverability and the latter, though lightly armed and armored when compared to the battleship, had greater speed and maneuverability.

I don't see how useful the Vengeance would be in battle. I remember a battle between the MU Defiant and Worf's flagship in which the latter was bested. Now I am imagining a fleet of those bird-of-preys seen in the trailer coming against this ship. Guess who will win? The Klingons, who use bird-of-preys extensively in combat and who perform the task of protecting the larger ships. So why did Starfleet invest money and resources into building this ship, when they could have invested money and resources into a number of smaller ships that could take on the Klingon battle strategy?

It seems the only people who think that battleships are cool is people who don't have the slightest knowledge of naval history.
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Old April 25 2013, 10:52 AM   #29
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

Throwback, as much as I agree with your post above - I also understand that it's all just part of an artistic license, also - the writers of this and the previous one always said they wanted their vision to be more grounded in reality, to be more accessible for broader audiences. Black-angular-mean looking? A stealth vehicle, everyone, without sophisticated military knowledge will know this at first glimpse. Any other sci-fi movies and shows used the same tendency, let me grab the closest example I can think of - BSG. Normal Vipers were white, with red stripes, lots of lettering and emblems, pretty much Starfleet style. Stealth fighter, the Blackbird looked like this.
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Old April 25 2013, 01:59 PM   #30
The Wormhole
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Re: SPOILER - Other Starship Revealed

The Keeper wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
The Keeper wrote: View Post
^Why would they paint a ship intended to be stealthy white? It's faceted shape implies it's able to hide from sensors so doesn't it make sense to visually conceal it as well?

...Wait, you're just teasing again. Right?
No, this time I actually am serious. I didn't know this ship is intended to be a stealth ship. Doesn't being twice the size of the oversized Enterprise work against that? A stealth ship should as small as possible, to better avoid detection. If Starfleet wants to use this behemoth for stealth purposes, wouldn't they just be better off trying to develop cloaking technology? They can, since the movie is set over sixty years before the Treaty of Algeron was signed.
I don't "know" that for sure either. I only sought out one spoiler after the premier () other than that, I remain spoiler free. I was just speculating based on its similar shape to known stealth ships.

I see the point but there could also be a needed intimidation factor here. Maybe a potential enemy has a big ship so they felt the need to go bigger than they did. Again, just speculating here.
Ah well, I just assumed the shape of the ship is intended to look "harsh" as more unsubtle reminder that it's the villain's ship. I have reviewed the spoilers (or rather skimmed, I don't have the attention span to read all that) but saw no indication in the movie that this is meant to be a stealth ship.

And again, the size really works against the idea that it is meant to be stealth. After all, this ship must need a crew of over 1000, and a stealth mission you want a bare minimum of people involved. Even if the majority of the crew were kept ignorant of the fact this is stealth, that just increases the chances of someone screwing up bad enough to risk exposing the ship.

Really, this ship should just be flying a flag saying "Villains aboard."
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