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Old April 24 2013, 11:07 PM   #466
Gov Kodos
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

No, delete the transporter error.
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Old April 24 2013, 11:12 PM   #467
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

It's really ironic that in a similar situation... where the Viidians stole Neelix's lungs and condemned him to death... Janeway refused to kill the person to take them back, citing that humanity was more evolved than that.

Maybe the Viidians just weren't Federation property.
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Old April 24 2013, 11:12 PM   #468
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Dream wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
We've all been dancing around the basic issue: does Data have a soul? I don't know that he has. I don't know that I have! But I have got to give him the freedom to explore that question himself. It is the ruling of this court that Lieutenant Commander Data has the freedom to choose."

The relevant is in bold.
Louvois is a trained JAG and Janeway does whatever hell she wants without regards to any laws.

What really bothered me is that Janeway never gave the Doctor more time to find a way to keep Tuvix while bringing back Neelix and Tuvok. What was with the rush? Don't they owe him that before condemning him to death?
In Stargate everyone was very disturbed that their clones were still out there. Picard seemed to veer between conflicted responsibility and revulsion towards his clone. The Rikers as I recall were antagonistic right off the bat. I would imagine having yourself blended with someone else might be even worse.
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Old April 24 2013, 11:17 PM   #469
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

I still say it was the orchids' fault. Yet everyone in the show seems to ignore them. Tuvix isn't just a Vulcaxian, he's also a plant.
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Old April 24 2013, 11:19 PM   #470
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Why should Seven be removed from the Collective? Like Tuvix, the Borg are a gestalt of the former individuals. Removing parts of the whole is an assault on the Borg. They are one, and The rights of the Collective should be respected.
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Old April 24 2013, 11:20 PM   #471
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Melakon wrote: View Post
I still say it was the orchids' fault. Yet everyone in the show seems to ignore them. Tuvix isn't just a Vulcaxian, he's also a plant.
A weed to be mulched.
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Old April 24 2013, 11:22 PM   #472
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

I still don't get why they don't see the orchid as the greatest agent for transporter development ever. Imagine if you took something that's very hard to obtain and transported it and the orchid with a tribble.. suddenly you have more of the stuff than you know what to do with. And food! At the very least you could infuse vodka in moments rather than months or however long it takes to stick vanilla or whatever in it.

I'd be saying, "transport everything I'm to eat with a this fresh chillie, I'll let you know if I ever grow tired of it!"

It has so many applications.
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Old April 24 2013, 11:22 PM   #473
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

teacake wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
We've all been dancing around the basic issue: does Data have a soul? I don't know that he has. I don't know that I have! But I have got to give him the freedom to explore that question himself. It is the ruling of this court that Lieutenant Commander Data has the freedom to choose."

The relevant is in bold.
Louvois is a trained JAG and Janeway does whatever hell she wants without regards to any laws.

What really bothered me is that Janeway never gave the Doctor more time to find a way to keep Tuvix while bringing back Neelix and Tuvok. What was with the rush? Don't they owe him that before condemning him to death?
In Stargate everyone was very disturbed that their clones were still out there. Picard seemed to veer between conflicted responsibility and revulsion towards his clone. The Rikers as I recall were antagonistic right off the bat. I would imagine having yourself blended with someone else might be even worse.
Eh, in Up the Long Ladder, Riker just flippin phasered the clones they made of him and Pulaski. That was murder by all accounts as well.
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Old April 24 2013, 11:26 PM   #474
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

teacake wrote: View Post
I still don't get why they don't see the orchid as the greatest agent for transporter development ever. Imagine if you took something that's very hard to obtain and transported it and the orchid with a tribble.. suddenly you have more of the stuff than you know what to do with. And food! At the very least you could infuse vodka in moments rather than months or however long it takes to stick vanilla or whatever in it.

I'd be saying, "transport everything I'm to eat with a this fresh chillie, I'll let you know if I ever grow tired of it!"

It has so many applications.
Imagine Janeway and Seven going through. Is the quadrant ready for that?
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Old April 24 2013, 11:31 PM   #475
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

teacake wrote: View Post
The Rikers as I recall were antagonistic right off the bat. I would imagine having yourself blended with someone else might be even worse.
In Riker's defense, he saved his duplicate from death. I thought it was interesting how TNG handled the transporter duplicate storyline, with both being clones of the original.

I hated how DS9 made Thomas Riker the bad guy and concluded his storyline. I like to pretend his story actually ended in TNG, and that Thomas is still out there in Starfleet.
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Old April 24 2013, 11:36 PM   #476
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Why should Seven be removed from the Collective? Like Tuvix, the Borg are a gestalt of the former individuals. Removing parts of the whole is an assault on the Borg. They are one, and The rights of the Collective should be respected.
There's a minor difference between Tuvix being the result(not the cause) of an accident and the Borg enslaving everyone they can into their hive mind.
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Old April 24 2013, 11:38 PM   #477
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

I wish they had airlocked W. Riker and left us with T. Riker and he had gone secretly rogue on TNG for several seasons.
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Old April 24 2013, 11:38 PM   #478
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Remember in up the long Ladder when Riker killed his clone because "The universe is only big enough for one Will Riker!"?
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Old April 24 2013, 11:42 PM   #479
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

R. Star wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Why should Seven be removed from the Collective? Like Tuvix, the Borg are a gestalt of the former individuals. Removing parts of the whole is an assault on the Borg. They are one, and The rights of the Collective should be respected.
There's a minor difference between Tuvix being the result(not the cause) of an accident and the Borg enslaving everyone they can into their hive mind.
So then, the Collective's rights as a sentient entity deserve no respect. Why should an accident allow Tuvix any rights as an individual that the Borg shouldn't have?
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Old April 24 2013, 11:52 PM   #480
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

The Borg queen was certainly pissed off at her precious 7's removal like a molar from the collective.
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