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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.20%
A 161 21.47%
A- 101 13.47%
B+ 83 11.07%
B 59 7.87%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.33%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.33%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.73%
D- 10 1.33%
F 38 5.07%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 24 2013, 03:38 PM   #181
Art Vandelay
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
I postulate that I can grow wings and fly to Mars.
Cute. And how pertinent! Especially considering I'm using words to illustrate my views, and you, well, don't.

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
I was just over at IMDB - the furor over Cumberbatch playing Khan is becoming preposterous enough that I think the Onion can get a video out of it now.
I really couldn't care less about casting, as long as whoever is hired does a good job in a fine story. Imagine the party they'd have over at the IMDB message boards (where tourette-like exclamations like "retard" or "moron" constitute valid posts) if they had put Cumberbatch in brownface.
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Old April 24 2013, 03:42 PM   #182
indranee
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
fascinoma wrote: View Post
I have observed that for the entire history of Star Trek films, there are always die hard Trekkers who can't be pleased.

What JJ has done is pretty monumental in that he's made the mythology accessible to people beyond the core fandom (people of my generation and your generation).
Totally agree. The red carpet last night was lined with many young people, aged 15-30 or so, all cheering wildly for Pine, Quinto and Urban.

I found fandom in 1980, as a fresh young 21-year-old. I often felt like the only fan in the room who'd loved ST:TMP. I went back through back issues of our club's newsletter and found venomous comments about Filmation's TAS, ST:TMP and Roddenberry's numerous attempts to get "ST: Phase II" afloat.

In following years, I saw fans reject ST II outright. (And even Roddenberry express his displeasure.) I saw fans who hated ST IV. I knew fans who refused to sample TNG. And even I found ST V rather unpalatable, but still a hoot to lampoon.

Funnily enough, when the next incarnation of Trek comes along, people tend to find the second-to-last one more tolerable. You don't see as much hatred for ST:TMP or "Enterprise" these days.
Therin, I can second you on most of these. I've watched these changes along with you. But you left out DS9

Yeah, die-hard Trekkies always find the last "unpalatable" Trek quite palatable once the next one is released. Then, it's on to fresh meat.
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Old April 24 2013, 03:53 PM   #183
Art Vandelay
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

KirkusOveractus wrote: View Post
Art: BTW, are you in importing or exporting?

Anyway, I understand your points completely. The problem is that although those things you mentioned can work and do well, Star Trek had a reputation for trying to do all those things but stumble and fall at trying. At this stage, if they tried that formula (which in Trek's case was overused) and failed, we would not have seen any new Star Trek again for probably a long, long, long time.

At this stage, they did what worked, and it did that in spades. People I know saw the 2009 movie and loved it, and are now borrowing my DVDs of TOS. The best thing is happening in that they are digging the series immensely, and they definitely would not have touched it before seeing the movie.

The main thing, to me, is that Trek had tried for the route of moneymaker and good storyteller in a movie, but it didn't work as much as hoped for the general public (which, like it or not, is how a movie succeeds).
Apart from the quality of the movie itself, JJTrek has been very good for the franchise. No argument here. It renewed interest and made projects like the TNG HD remaster viable. (Those Blu-rays sell really well, I'm told.)

The film has reeled in many new fans, and if they were to come out with a new series now, the viewing figures might be a vast improvement over the dismal performance of ENT.

So why is Mr. Abrams nipping all potential series in the bud? He's going around saying, "As long as I'm doing Trek, nobody else is."

This is a franchise that isn't movie only, and soon the time will be right for it to play on multiple channels again. If only Abrams weren't so incredibly stubborn.

For example: Imagine a series about an ageless, deep-cover Aegis agent (you know, a colleague of Gary Seven), living through Trek's fictional history all the way from First Contact to the 24th century, desperately struggling behind the scenes to make sure things happen the way they are supposed to. Lone-wolf scenario, maybe a sidekick, throw in regular baddie who's actively working against the protagonist, then kill the sidekick in season 3 to really shake things up, season-long arcs etc.

That's new, possibly with some potential. And that's just off the top of my head, me being no writer at all. I dare the powers that be to come up with something better.
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Old April 24 2013, 03:58 PM   #184
indranee
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
indranee wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post

He evidently identifies himself as "Khan;" Spock Prime refers to "Khan Noonian Singh."


Which, BTW, is consistent with the way he withheld his full identity in "Space Seed."


Well, he was never positively identified as Indian to begin with. McGivers said "From the northern India area, I'd guess. Probably a Sikh." She was an historian, not an ethnologist. My impression was that he was Mexican.
lol Dennis, yes, a Mexican named Khan. Sure
I got a Japanese friend named Sullivan and a European-American relative named Wu. So?
so, it's a cop out. In real life a "DasGupta" can be from anywhere but in fiction, there is usually a reason I am a DasGupta and not a "Bailey".

It's a cop out and you know it, Dennis. Quit trying to excuse the heck out of this. Let's face it, Cumberbatch is the face of many new and good things to come and JJ and Co wanted to get in the front of the queue.

Like I said, I'm happy and I'll leave it at that. But you can't expect everyone to be happy with it.
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Old April 24 2013, 04:00 PM   #185
Borgminister
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Where has JJ said that as long as he's doing Trek, no one else will?
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Old April 24 2013, 04:00 PM   #186
marksound
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

So why is Mr. Abrams nipping all potential series in the bud? He's going around saying, "As long as I'm doing Trek, nobody else is."
That could also mean, "As long as I'm doing Trek, I'm doing it my way."

At least I haven't seen a lot of "AAAAUUUUUUUGH! THEY'RE MURDERING MY CHILDHOOD!" this time.
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Old April 24 2013, 04:03 PM   #187
indranee
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Art Vandelay wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
[...] Funnily enough, when the next incarnation of Trek comes along, people tend to find the second-to-last one more tolerable. You don't see as much hatred for ST:TMP or "Enterprise" these days.
Thing is, I liked every incarnation of Trek up until Trek 09. Some more (TNG, ENT, DS9), some less (VOY). (Although I tend to try and forget Nemesis exists.) There is no series/film that I used to denigrate and then grew softer towards as new things came along. Indeed, my deep affection for ST:TMP was love at first sight.

The thing with Trek pre-2008 is that it didn't need to be wall-to-wall action. It didn't have to be marketed as the next Dark Knight. 90% of the promotional artwork for Into Darkness had me going: "This is supposed to be Trek? Why are the characters armed to the teeth with huge ego-shooter guns?" I guess that's a sign of the times.

When in the past they did bad science (Genesis or Threshold), Braga at least had the decency to hang his head in shame. Nowadays, we have Spock proclaiming that supernovas can destroy whole galaxies. We have transporters that only require a quick firmware update to achieve limitless range. And no idea of what rank means, either. Kirk is insubordinate, commandeers the ship, gets to be captain on a technicality? Bah - he destroyed that evil Romulan, so let's have this heroic Cadet skip the ranks of Ensign, Lieutenant j.g., Lieutenant, Lieutenant Commander and Commander altogether and make him Captain. And while we're at it, let's not give him some science vessel, let him have the flagship of the Federation. That's not Trek, that's "Marvel's Kirk & Spock".

When you get a sandbox like the Trekverse to play in, stick to the rules. Bend them if you must, us fans are willing to look the other way in case of minor or mid-sized infractions. It's this careless, indifferent "anything goes, who gives a f**k" attitude the writers seem to have that drives me up the wall and makes me yearn for the Trek "of old".

I guess I wouldn't be so bitter if we had a "proper" TV series doing what Trek is best at (character-heavy plays), and the action films were special events. Now all we have is this monster movie franchise, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Wrong thread, I suppose. But boy did it feel good to vent. I miss Star Trek so very much.
I don't understand. You have five series, ten movies and a ton of other stuff to play with. Why do you miss it? It's all right there, waiting for you to watch.
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Old April 24 2013, 04:05 PM   #188
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Borgminister wrote: View Post
Where has JJ said that as long as he's doing Trek, no one else will?
Nowhere, as far as I remember.
Unless one counts LeVar Burton, who allegedly has been hearing such things from Abrams' camp.
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Old April 24 2013, 04:23 PM   #189
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Okay, you've been warned - a lengthy and somewhat disjointed synopsis of the movie from someone at IMDB.


This seems bizzare coz it sound like I'm reviewing a movie Ive not seen yet but:



I will definitely see it with an open mind and enjoy it for what it is but I morn the lack of originality where they could have boldly gone...
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Old April 24 2013, 04:32 PM   #190
Jeyl
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

indranee wrote: View Post
I don't understand. You have five series, ten movies and a ton of other stuff to play with. Why do you miss it? It's all right there, waiting for you to watch.
I think it's the sad fact that Star Trek is now essentially a movie only franchise rather than a continuous series. Four years just for a two hour long adventure doesn't really offer much variety that gives Star Trek it's heart and soul. Not saying you can't have some of that in the movies, but with a series you can take more chances in doing something different.
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Old April 24 2013, 04:35 PM   #191
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Art Vandelay wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
I postulate that I can grow wings and fly to Mars.
Cute. And how pertinent! Especially considering I'm using words to illustrate my views, and you, well, don't.
You use lots of words without making a real point other than bemoaning change and claiming things for which there's no evidence. One silly unprovable assertion is worth another.
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Old April 24 2013, 04:38 PM   #192
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Art Vandelay wrote: View Post
Those Blu-rays sell really well, I'm told.

Nope. (Unless you ask the people working on it) But I'm hoping season 3 will change that. I want DS9.
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Old April 24 2013, 04:41 PM   #193
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
indranee wrote: View Post
lol Dennis, yes, a Mexican named Khan. Sure
I got a Japanese friend named Sullivan and a European-American relative named Wu. So?
That argument would be a lot more convincing if the filmmakers were also casting Asian actors as guys named Terrence McLaglan and Latinos as Greta Hoff. But when they only do the race-bending to cast actors of European descent in non-European roles it's called "whitewashing" and it has a long, shameful history in Hollywood.

There aren't a lot of starring roles for Indian actors in Hollywood. This was one of them. Abrams instead gave the part to a white guy who has no trouble finding parts. That's just plain wrong.
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Old April 24 2013, 04:45 PM   #194
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Shon T'Hara wrote: View Post
There aren't a lot of starring roles for Indian actors in Hollywood. This was one of them.
The part's never been played by an Indian actor or by an actor who resembled an Indian.

For that matter Uhura's never been played by an actor who really looks African*, but white Americans tend to have rather generalized and inattentive notions about race and ethnicity to the extent they exist.


*I can't recall whether Uhura is canonically - that is, onscreen - African or whether that's just what's been said in supporting biographical material for the character. Sulu was eventually established to have been born in the United States (ST 4)
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Old April 24 2013, 04:47 PM   #195
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Montalban wasn't very "brown". Nor Indian.

Persis Khambatta was from India. And not "brown".
As sttngfan1701d said though, there's a difference between the olive color and pasty white. And he also aptly pointed out that at least in TOS they went so far as to apply bronze makeup to Montalban. Why did they go to that effort? It's because they were going for the traditional Sikh ruler look, which is typically a darker skin tone, definitely not pasty, not white, perhaps not olive, but at least bronze.

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Requiring Khan to be a brown skinned man with a certain accent just because he's from a certain part of the world is just a little bit ... what's the word I'm looking for here? ... oh, yeah. Racist.
I'm afraid you don't at all know what racism is. You should perhaps try and look it up. While you're educating yourself, maybe take a look at prominent political positions of India and those of Sikhs, and then come back to me and laughingly assert that such a person should be pasty white.
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