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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.23%
A 161 21.50%
A- 101 13.48%
B+ 83 11.08%
B 59 7.88%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.34%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.34%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.74%
D- 10 1.34%
F 37 4.94%
Voters: 749. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 24 2013, 05:51 AM   #136
WarpFactorZ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Pine generally looks like Kirk though. Saldana generally looks like Uhura. Cho like Sulu, Yelchin like Chekov, etc. Some of the characters remarkably resembled the previous versions.
You said it in such a PC way....

And I mean, we know that they meant well and tried at least to hire someone Latino, however misguided that may be.
This one, same point, but not so PC.
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Old April 24 2013, 06:08 AM   #137
sttngfan1701d
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
And I mean, we know that they meant well and tried at least to hire someone Latino, however misguided that may be. But then they gave up and went with pale British white guy cliche. I'm sure Cumberbatch will do a great job and I'll do my best to ignore it, but why didn't they say, "Hey, this guy could be an Indian instead of a Mexican, right? We know and worked with a charismatic, attractive, athletic Indian gentlemen for years who would be perfect for the role." Couldn't they have looked to someone like Naveen Andrews who they worked very closely with on Lost and would've been great in the role? Are they afraid that someone too brown as the villain is going to cause problems and turn away viewers? Is it just better to play it safe and whitewash Khan?
It must've been a case of "We can get Benedict Cumberbatch?! Wow, let's go for him!" And to be fair we don't know what the casting process was like. But if they truly didn't even consider Indian actors, that's just lazy. And kinda dumb to be honest.

Ironically the actor who played Captain Robau in the first film would've made a fantastic Khan too.

Anyway, the film is made, it's a non-issue. But it's also a missed opportunity IMO.
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Old April 24 2013, 06:26 AM   #138
Therin of Andor
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
I initiated contact with this person as soon as the screening wrapped because I knew they attended, not the other way around.
Actually, I only just realized this morning that it is one of my friends, who was sitting near nickyboy, Jean Prouvaire and me at the screening. Now I know what all the frenzied iPadding was all about!

sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
And to be fair we don't know what the casting process was like. But if they truly didn't even consider Indian actors, that's just lazy. And kinda dumb to be honest.
Actually, I recall an early interview where someone said they had a different actor in mind (Edgar Ramirez?), but Cumberbatch's taped performance, sent to the casting people, blew them all away.

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Are they afraid that someone too brown as the villain is going to cause problems and turn away viewers? Is it just better to play it safe and whitewash Khan?
Montalban wasn't very "brown". Nor Indian.

Persis Khambatta was from India. And not "brown".
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Last edited by Therin of Andor; April 24 2013 at 06:50 AM. Reason: typo
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Old April 24 2013, 07:00 AM   #139
sttngfan1701d
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
I initiated contact with this person as soon as the screening wrapped because I knew they attended, not the other way around.
Actually, I only just realized this morning that it is one of my friends, who was sitting near nickyboy, Jean Prouvaire and me at the screening. Now I know what all the frenzied iPadding was all about!

sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
And to be fair we don't know what the casting process was like. But if they truly didn't even consider Indian actors, that's just lazy. And kinda dumb to be honest.
Actually, I recall an early interview where someone said they had a different actor in mind, but Cumberbatch's taped performance, sent to the casting people, blew them all away.

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Are they afraid that someone too brown as the villain is going to cause problems and turn away viewers? Is it just better to play it safe and whitewash Khan?
Montalban wasn't very "brown". Nor Indian.

Persis Khambatta was from India. And not "brown".
That's fair enough, but not even Indians from the furthest reaches of Kashmir are as white as Benedict Cumberbatch. In "Space Seed" Montalban had brown makeup to appear darker; in Star Trek II they probably said "screw it" and used Montalban again because he had previously played the role and was great (and by '82, a household name because of Fantasy Island).

If the character is just "Khan" and not Khan Noonien Singh, I guess they can whitewash him all they want. But if you have a second crack at casting a badass Indian guy, I would've thought in 2011/2012 they would actually look at badass Indian actors who can play great villains. But it seems that they first went to Latino actors and then Cumberbatch? Huh?

But like I said...it's a non-issue now. The movie is made. But I swear I will laugh out loud in the movie theater if Mr. Lilywhite utters the dialogue "I am Khan Noonien Singh!" It's so silly it approaches Toby Stephens-as-a-previous-Korean-guy territory from Die Another Day.
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Old April 24 2013, 07:01 AM   #140
Devon
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Actually, I recall an early interview where someone said they had a different actor in mind (Edgar Ramirez?), but Cumberbatch's taped performance, sent to the casting people, blew them all away.
Yes. In fact Benecio Del Toro was the front runner for a little while until contract negotiations fell through. The wiser choice was made. Benedict is a rising star who already has a loyal following, is popular in UK due to Sherlock, etc. Benedict will put butts in seats that's for sure (more-so than Benecio at least.)
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Old April 24 2013, 07:07 AM   #141
aeriolewinters
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Also, Anyone considers that this Alternate Universe was already altered to begin with?
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Old April 24 2013, 07:08 AM   #142
WarpFactorZ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

aeriolewinters wrote: View Post
Also, Anyone considers that this Alternate Universe was already altered to begin with?
How so, in relation to this movie and its characters?
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Old April 24 2013, 07:12 AM   #143
I am not Spock
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

OneBuckFilms wrote: View Post
It could be explained also by Section 31, if they had further enhanced his genetics.
It's an alternate universe from the get go, even before the Kelvin incident. That's one easy way to solve everyone's issues with canon. The Abramsverse is one of endless multiverses (like the ones hinted at in TNG's Parallels). Easy solution.

They can do what they like. It doesn't matter if Khan is white, or Vulcan is destroyed, or Chekov is born earlier. Alternate timeline.
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Old April 24 2013, 07:19 AM   #144
WarpFactorZ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I am not Spock wrote: View Post
It's an alternate universe from the get go, even before the Kelvin incident.
No it's not. Nero's encounter with the Kelvin was specifically highlighted as the point where the timelines diverged. That was even addressed on screen in the film. And Spock Prime's presence was a testament to the original timeline.
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Old April 24 2013, 07:19 AM   #145
ROBE
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Does the movie mention Section 31 altering Khan's appearance?
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Old April 24 2013, 07:50 AM   #146
Xaios
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
But along those lines: was Khan the *worst* thing he warned them about? Doomsday Machine? Whale probe? Borg? etc...
Who's to say he didn't warn Starfleet about some of those things as well? However, compared to indestructible planet killers and genocidal techno-zombies, Khan probably presented a unique opportunity, and Starfleet probably believed (erroneously, it seems) that they could control him.
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Old April 24 2013, 07:55 AM   #147
M'Sharak
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

aeriolewinters wrote: View Post
Also, Anyone considers that this Alternate Universe was already altered to begin with?
It's been suggested more than a few times, yes.
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Old April 24 2013, 08:00 AM   #148
Sigokat
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I'm currently in Afghanistan. The job I do has me working with local nationals on a daily basis. Now granted this is A'stan and not India, but some of the LNs here are very white. Of course not as white as BC, but still, the skin color is not always going to be the same all over the place.

Now the terp I see ocassionaly in the mess hall that has "Khan" on his name tape...he's much darker (I still want to go up to him and yell KHHAAAAAAAAAAAAN! but I know I never will because it would only be cool in my mind )

I was disappointed yesterday in the spoilers I read, but the more I've thought about it the more I think this will still end up being a cool movie. BC is awesome (discovered him in Sherlock and was thrilled he was going to be in this) so I'm willing to overlook the whole "Indian" hertiage of Khan and just go with the flow.
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Old April 24 2013, 08:19 AM   #149
indranee
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
No explanation for Khan's appearance is offered in the film, any more than an explanation for Kirk being a blue-eyed fellow who doesn't look much like William Shatner was offered in ST 2009.
But does he say his name is Khan or Khan Noonien Singh?

I mean, I won't lose sleep over it either but it is disappointing. There are so many Indian actors that are perfect for the badass tyrant role, and we get Captain Britishguy WhiteMan?

They could've at least looked at guys like Sunil Shetty (my personal choice), Arjun Rampal, John Abraham, Abhishek Bachchan, Aamir Khan...
None of those dudes would make the cut, IMO. The only one who could come close is Hrithik Roshan.

But I'm just really, really glad they chose Cumberbatch.
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Old April 24 2013, 08:21 AM   #150
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
No explanation for Khan's appearance is offered in the film, any more than an explanation for Kirk being a blue-eyed fellow who doesn't look much like William Shatner was offered in ST 2009.
But does he say his name is Khan or Khan Noonien Singh?
He evidently identifies himself as "Khan;" Spock Prime refers to "Khan Noonian Singh."


Which, BTW, is consistent with the way he withheld his full identity in "Space Seed."

KHAN: Khan is my name.

KIRK: Khan--nothing else?

KHAN: Khan.
I mean, I won't lose sleep over it either but it is disappointing. There are so many Indian actors that are perfect for the badass tyrant role, and we get Captain Britishguy WhiteMan?
Well, he was never positively identified as Indian to begin with. McGivers said "From the northern India area, I'd guess. Probably a Sikh." She was an historian, not an ethnologist. My impression was that he was Mexican.
lol Dennis, yes, a Mexican named Khan. Sure
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