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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old April 23 2013, 09:53 PM   #196
Christopher
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

^I didn't see that as a cliffhanger. Sometimes a character isn't rescued. Sometimes their sacrifice is the resolution of the story.
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Old April 23 2013, 10:00 PM   #197
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

But the book ended before his actual death, didn't it? Or, at least, that's what I remember. If he had just died, that'd have been different.

His head was on its way to the noose, but she ... left him hanging?
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Old April 23 2013, 10:09 PM   #198
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

"It is a far, far better thing that I do than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known." Sometimes the story ends with the character on the way to the final sacrifice rather than after they die. That doesn't mean it's a cliffhanger; it just means the writer is exercising discretion, or letting the character go out with dignity.
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Old April 23 2013, 10:14 PM   #199
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Interesting, I never thought of it that way. Maybe because it was billed as the start of a series, so at the time I read it I expected a next book.

A Tale of Two Cities was a standalone.

In any case its what we're left with because she'll likely never write any more books. At the time I just assumed she planned to resolve the situation in the next novel. Since there was never a resolution I always sort of imagined, like you said, oh well he just died. But I always thought she was just setting up the next book in the series.
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Old April 23 2013, 10:21 PM   #200
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

DorkBoy [TM] wrote: View Post
Interesting, I never thought of it that way. Maybe because it was billed as the start of a series, so at the time I read it I expected a next book.

A Tale of Two Cities was a standalone.
.

Don't be silly. A Tale of Two Cities was the prequel to The Wrath of Khan . . .or maybe The Dark Knight Rises. I get confused sometimes.
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Old April 23 2013, 11:20 PM   #201
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

DorkBoy [TM] wrote: View Post
In any case its what we're left with because she'll likely never write any more books. At the time I just assumed she planned to resolve the situation in the next novel. Since there was never a resolution I always sort of imagined, like you said, oh well he just died. But I always thought she was just setting up the next book in the series.
Well, sure, but it's possible that what she was setting up was not the character's rescue, but the aftermath of his death. It's been a long time since I read it, but I think that was the vibe I got, that this was a done deal and its consequences would have to be lived with.

And either way, since this was the last story we got, I think it works as a definitive conclusion whether it was intended to be or not.
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Old April 24 2013, 01:37 AM   #202
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Christopher wrote: View Post
DorkBoy [TM] wrote: View Post
In any case its what we're left with because she'll likely never write any more books. At the time I just assumed she planned to resolve the situation in the next novel. Since there was never a resolution I always sort of imagined, like you said, oh well he just died. But I always thought she was just setting up the next book in the series.
Well, sure, but it's possible that what she was setting up was not the character's rescue, but the aftermath of his death. It's been a long time since I read it, but I think that was the vibe I got, that this was a done deal and its consequences would have to be lived with.

And either way, since this was the last story we got, I think it works as a definitive conclusion whether it was intended to be or not.
Yeah, and I wasn't necessarily saying the "resolution" would be his rescue, it might just have easily been his death. It seemed to me like it could have gone either way. The reason it was a good cliffhanger is, you don't know for sure.

Reminds me of The Best of Both Worlds cliffhanger- at the time, I really thought there was a good chance they might kill off Picard. (Saw a Jonathan Frakes interview yesterday where he said the cast at the time thought the same, thought that Stewart might be renegotiating his contract and might be killed off.) I think what made that such a good cliffhanger was, a Picard rescue did not seem like a sure thing.

And yes, that's on my mind right now because I'm going on Thursday.
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Last edited by DorkBoy [TM]; April 24 2013 at 01:55 AM. Reason: Hard to post with children pestering! :)
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Old April 24 2013, 03:26 AM   #203
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Ugh, I knew someone would nitpick my usage of the word "cliffhanger." Let's say "unresolved story point."
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Old April 24 2013, 04:22 AM   #204
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

^Same thing. What I was saying was that it didn't feel unresolved to me -- Bonifay had chosen to sacrifice himself and that was the resolution. The decisive point wasn't when his heart stopped but when the characters accepted it as the way things were going to be. As is the case with many stories in episodic media, it was an ending that could be continued from if there were sequels but also could work as a final resolution in their absence.
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Old April 24 2013, 05:05 AM   #205
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Just be thankful Bonifay didn't stifle a groan on his way to be executed.
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Old April 24 2013, 06:30 AM   #206
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
^ Forgive me for being pedantic, but just to let you know, the Excelsior captain in TSFS was Styles, and presumably unrelated to Lt. Stiles from Balance of Terror.
So one branch of the family decided to change the "I" to a "Y" for reasons that aren't clear. They could still be related.
LOLZ FOR REALZ?

Does that mean Ensign Janeway from the Enterprise-D is actually related to Captain Janeway from Voyager?

Is Admiral Chekote from TNG then related to Commander Chakotay from Voyager?

Or Khan Noonien Singh is related to Dr. Noonian Soong?

Or perhaps Phlox is related to Phlox?

Or Valerie Archer, a member of Species 8472 is actually a relation (by marriage of course!) to Jonathan Archer?

Let's not limit it to Trek, either. I mean, it's entirely possible Mickey Smith is somehow related to Sarah Jane Smith, right?

Or Ianto Jones is related to Martha Jones?


Or it's entirely possible that each of these characters is unrelated and just happen to have the same last names because that's the way they were fucking written.
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Last edited by doubleohfive; April 24 2013 at 08:54 PM.
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Old April 24 2013, 02:06 PM   #207
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

I'm stifling a groan at this thread.
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Old April 24 2013, 02:34 PM   #208
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Christopher wrote: View Post
"It is a far, far better thing that I do than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known." Sometimes the story ends with the character on the way to the final sacrifice rather than after they die. That doesn't mean it's a cliffhanger; it just means the writer is exercising discretion, or letting the character go out with dignity.
I agree, but had there been another installment, we'd have probably found out whether Keller permitted Bonifay's sentence to be carried out. There was a lot of debate by fans about whether Keller would weaken or not, and try to save him.
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Old April 24 2013, 04:39 PM   #209
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

The thing about names reminds me of an interview about Brinkmanship, where the interviewer commented on the Cardassian's spy's name's similarity to tv cardassians. In that case Una was deliberately doing worldbuilding - names are common societal signifiers, that don't often mean known relation. Lols about the small world mentality in fictional worlds that means everyone must be related by some recent, important connection!
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Old April 24 2013, 08:36 PM   #210
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

doubleohfive wrote: View Post
Or Ianto Jones is related to Martha Jones?
They're both related to Harriet Jones.
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