RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,649
Posts: 5,428,469
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 574
Newest member: Damix

TrekToday headlines

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Fandom > Fan Art

Fan Art Post your Trek fan art here, including hobby models and collectibles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 20 2013, 12:39 AM   #151
Mytran
Fleet Captain
 
Mytran's Avatar
 
Location: North Wales
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post

Coming in late to this thread, but it does demonstrate exactly my problem with modern TOS revisionists. A ring corridor in the secondary hull! This automatically is one reason why FJ's blueprints are more plausible: because he exercised what's called common sense and plausibility. He was also an aerospace draftsman.

I mean, if you take this Deck 14 line of thought one step further you'd might as well accept the turbo shaft scene in ST V and rebuild the entire Enterprise with 79 decks, and Deck 1 being at the very bottom of the secondary hull.

Ring corridors belong in the primary hull. Period. They are shaped that way for a reason.
I find the label of Modern Revisionism very interesting. How modern is "modern"? As has been pointed out, TOS frequently depicted scenes in/near Engineering and the Shuttlebay, which predates everything!
Personally, I've been working on a similarly project for around 15 years (and I think Robert Consol has been at it a while longer).

A decade after the original series aired, FJ released his plans. He took his design in one direction, one that has led to some criticising his work as a "floating hotel" due to all the bedrooms. I do like his design and layout of the corridors and turbolift network, but in truth it has little in common with what we saw week after week on our TV screens (and arguably, different to what Matt Joseph had in mind when he first designed Big E).

If I was getting nitpicky, I might also feel tempted to mention the swimming pool behind the main deflector dish or the lack of structural elements throughout.
If I was getting nitpicky

As for Star Trek 5? Different ship - and maybe her decks do start at the bottom...
Mytran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 01:38 AM   #152
Albertese
Commodore
 
Albertese's Avatar
 
Location: Portland, OR
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Mytran wrote: View Post

...I do like his design and layout of the corridors and turbolift network, but in truth it has little in common with what we saw week after week on our TV screens (and arguably, different to what Matt Joseph had in mind when he first designed Big E).

...
That's Matt Jefferies. I know a bunch of "J" names... easy to mess up...

--Alex
__________________
Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
Albertese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2013, 02:29 AM   #153
Mytran
Fleet Captain
 
Mytran's Avatar
 
Location: North Wales
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Oops, that's what I get for writing late at night!
Mytran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22 2013, 11:52 PM   #154
publiusr
Commodore
 
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

The more blueprints the merrier. If he wants circular halls in the secondary hull--go for it. I just ask he fill the empty spaces with interesting bits.
publiusr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23 2013, 03:59 PM   #155
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

publiusr wrote: View Post
The more blueprints the merrier. If he wants circular halls in the secondary hull--go for it. I just ask he fill the empty spaces with interesting bits.
Looks like I missed some interesting posts while putting Main Deck 5 together.

For the record and to avoid any possible misunderstandings: I do not "want" circular corridors in the engineering hull, as a matter of fact I hate and despise them and would have wished that Matt Jefferies would have been able to insist that the TOS DPs shoot scenes for the engineering hull in the long engine room corridor exclusively (heck, they managed to have rectangular interiors abord the Klingon Battlecruiser used by the Romulans in "The Enterprise Incident"!).

But from the start I didn't want to embark on another "fantasy" deck plan project (I had my fill with the FJ deck plans to last me a lifetime) but on an interior reproduction that is as "screen-accurate" and as realistic as possible.

Whether we like it or not, there have been TOS scenes taking place inside the engineering hull in the presence of circular corridors:
  • Kirk's cabin with exterior windows on (Engineering) Deck 12 in "Mudd's Women" and "The Enemy Within" (and McCoy's cabin with exterior windows in "The Man Trap")
  • Rand's cabin on Deck 12 in "The Enemy Within"
  • the shuttlecraft hangar deck access corridor in "The Doomsday Machine" (and in "The Immunity Syndrome")
  • the corridor outside the (warp) engine room in "The Ultimate Computer" (if this engine room where in the saucer, I'd wonder how you'd get from the saucer hull to the engineering hull via turbo lift in a manner that would still be realistic, believable and palatable...)
  • et cetera
The mission goal's first priority are not deck plans that look nice but which are compatible with the onscreen information. I don't pretend to understand the minds of 23rd Century starship designers and engineers but if they felt that's the design they wanted for whatever reason, than that's the design I'll try to reproduce.

Nevertheless my friends and I will try to fill in the blank areas in the engineering deck plans in a fashion that will hopefully distract from the central circular corridor as much as possible.

I hope we all do like these circular corridors...
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein

Last edited by Robert Comsol; April 23 2013 at 05:14 PM.
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23 2013, 05:12 PM   #156
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP




Main Deck 05 (Version 3.02 / 130421)

Apparently it took me a whole month to get from what I consider the “engineering deck essentials” to the main decks in the saucer hull.
I felt that work on the saucer should start in its center or sickbay and I first compiled all the TOS sickbay footage only to discover there were more variations than just the drastic studio set change from Season One to the subsequent two seasons.

While examination and exercise tables can obviously be moved (i.e. “Dagger of the Mind”, “Journey to Babel”, “By Any Other Name”, “The Tholian Web (Defiant)”, “The Day of the Dove”) to make space for emergencies arriving on stretcher trolleys, I don’t think life functions medical monitors in the examination room are equally flexible - which already gives us at least two Season One exam room variations. With Season Two (especially its early episodes) it’s also more than one sickbay room complex (not to forget the different door colors / functions in the corridor vis-à-vis the examination rooms and labs!).

To cut a long story short: One central deck complex simply isn’t enough and personally I consider this to be great news as the onscreen evidence clearly suggests sickbay to be on Deck 5 (“Amok Time”, “Elaan of Troyius”) while the general assumption for its location is Deck 7, suggested by The Making of Star Trek (and popularized by Franz Joseph’s blueprints). Obviously, a sickbay complex on three decks is the golden compromise that should make every TOS trekker happy.

The first solid evidence for sickbay to be on Deck 5 comes straight from “Amok Time”. Kirk and Spock travel to “Deck 5” where Kirk kicks out Spock who looks back at him while the door sign in the background apparently reads “astro-medicine ward 4” (and “5R 672”?). Since this is a ship and not a free standing building (where Ward 4 could just be the wing of a hospital) I have therefore assumed that Ward 4 is on Deck 5.
Therefore our first encounter with Ward 4 (in the saucer…) already occurred in “The Naked Time” (3 o’clock).

The Season One set occupied the same space as its successor but obviously the director of “Amok Time” introduced the new set with a twist: Instead of letting Spock walk straight into the new exam room opposite the turbo lift (red door), Spock starts to walk down the corridor (2 o’clock) and shows up in an exam room vis-à-vis a grey door! This tells us that the director had the red turbo lift door deliberately exchanged for a grey one that now belongs to a “briefing room” (but whose number is impossible to read).

Next, the director of “The Changeling” felt the new doctor’s office should be where the actual door to the studio set exam room is! Strangely enough this resulted in a merging of the Season One rooms with these “out-of-context” Season Two variations between 12 and 3 o’clock but takes efficiently care of this strange issue.

Other scenes taking place in or around Ward 4 (according to readable signs) are from “Way to Eden” and “Turnabout Intruder”.
Theoretically, these could share the same corridor and sickbay scenes, except for the Season Two multi-purpose rooms: In WE it’s some sort of waiting room where Chekov and Irina seek some privacy (8 o’clock), in TI it’s an isolation bedroom (5R 671) where “Janice Lester” is kept (5 o’clock). And last but not least the (inner) corridor with Kirk’s cabin from “Mark of Gideon” needed to be on this deck, too, IMHO.

The solution presented here was to make the corridor much longer, but alternately Kirk’s whole MG corridor could start near turbo lift designation # 3 and end at “9 o’clock”. In the latter case the WE waiting room then was converted into a bedroom shortly after WE…

Should it be correct that Kirk carries Odona out of Recreation Room 3 in MG, it would seem that the aforementioned alternate option (i.e. separate MG corridor) is actually better compatible with “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield” where Lokai and Bele passed “Recreation Room 3” on Deck 5.

Their movement from Deck 3 towards the lower decks suggests the use of stairs, apparently near the edges of the outer “A-Frame” corridors. Since Kirk carried Odona out of the briefing / rec room set this would suggest the room to have either a stairway or a some kind of lift (7 o’clock). Apparently the stairway should be designed to allow space for the vertical tubes coming from the environmental engineering room below on Deck 6, seen in “Wink of an Eye”.

The outer Deck 5 corridor was obviously featured in “Journey to Babel”. Kirk probably had to give up his normal quarters with a bathroom (MG) for one of the Federation ambassadors. The edit of the scene allows for Kirk, Spock and McCoy to have taken a “U-turn” in the 7 o’clock corridor to head astern to catch a turbo lift ride to the hangar deck.

During their turn we can clearly see a “transporter section” direction sign, suggesting a transporter room on Deck 5 and in this area (used by Lokai and Bele in LB to transport off the ship).

At 8 o’clock inside the ward I did a little experiment (the angle of the separation wall between doctor’s office and lab matched the angle of the sickbay beds too nicely…), for the time being I left the adjacent section including the isolation ward untouched as I might still need it for other TOS sets or also TAS (e.g. rectangular bedroom in “The Survivor”).

Questions and feedback are much welcome (as always). Stay tuned. Enjoy!

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24 2013, 01:17 PM   #157
Mytran
Fleet Captain
 
Mytran's Avatar
 
Location: North Wales
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

My, but it's nice to see the rooms all laid out, however incomplete their final location may be
Seeing your work really takes me back to jig-sawing in all the Sickbay components myself a few years ago. I must get back to that sometime...

Anyway, comments:

I see you've integrated some of the chase sequence from LTBYLB into Deck 5 - liking the use of stairs as a starting point! Lokai would then run anticlockwise along the circular corridor before ducking down the straight corridor towards the Transporter Section (all good so far). However, in the episode he turns LEFT into the final straight corridor before entering the Transporter Room - in your setup, Bele and Lokai would be turning RIGHT. Or have I missed something?

Back onto the main function of Deck 5, I do like the way you've joined some of the Sickbay rooms together which vary then from the set layout. Are there going to be still more wards and examination rooms on Decks 6 & 7 though? That's a LARGE section of the ship given over to medical facilities - although things like life support and environmental engineering are related to medical needs, so I agree that including them near the Sickbay area is a good move.

Finally, it is good to see a solution for the JTB walk that Spock, McCoy and Kirk do at the beginning of the episode. However, are you planning to resolve the weird corridor setup that is used when Kirk has his fight later? http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...4&postcount=69
Mytran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24 2013, 03:59 PM   #158
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Mytran wrote: View Post
I see you've integrated some of the chase sequence from LTBYLB into Deck 5 - liking the use of stairs as a starting point! Lokai would then run anticlockwise along the circular corridor before ducking down the straight corridor towards the Transporter Section (all good so far). However, in the episode he turns LEFT into the final straight corridor before entering the Transporter Room - in your setup, Bele and Lokai would be turning RIGHT. Or have I missed something?
Good catch! Originally I had considered that the 12 o'clock corridor should be the arrival point on Deck 5 (with the angled in "hangar deck set" pressure door) and access to the transporter section via the 10 o'clock corridor. But then I felt that I couldn't exclude the possibility that Kirk and Spock received the call from sickbay only a few yards away from it in the Cg "standard" corridor...and then forgot to fix the transporter room corridor, after I had shifted the arrival point.
The solution appears to put the transporter room at its original studio set location and assume that Lokai overshot and made a U-turn to get to the transporter. That would also put the transporter room closer to sickbay to receive injured landing party members on the shortest way (I guess I'll still have space on Deck 6 or 7 to install the ET transporter room...).

Mytran wrote: View Post
Back onto the main function of Deck 5, I do like the way you've joined some of the Sickbay rooms together which vary then from the set layout. Are there going to be still more wards and examination rooms on Decks 6 & 7 though? That's a LARGE section of the ship given over to medical facilities - although things like life support and environmental engineering are related to medical needs, so I agree that including them near the Sickbay area is a good move.
I do believe that a ship with a crew of 430 lives that also needs to serve as a movable hospital for colonists and the like requires more than just 5 beds (Season One and Season Two bedroom added together) in the sickbay complex. Deck 6 will see environmental engineering (according to "Day of the Dove") cannibalizing some of the sickbay space and Deck 7 will contain several labs (according to The Making of Star Trek) and the intensive care unit (less crew traffic on Deck 7). I'm curious myself how that's going to turn out.
But I'll start on Deck 7 as the open "environmental" ladders need to align to the "fall-safe" ladders on Deck 6.

Mytran wrote: View Post
Finally, it is good to see a solution for the JTB walk that Spock, McCoy and Kirk do at the beginning of the episode. However, are you planning to resolve the weird corridor setup that is used when Kirk has his fight later? http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...4&postcount=69
I'd say that's one of these rare exceptions where the director either screwed up or wanted to convey to the audience that Kirk is confused and about to pass out...(well, this strange edit definitely continues to confuse me every time I see it ).
When accuracy collides head on with believability, I'd prefer to choose believability.


But there's another "screwup" that got me thinking. The late McCoy office scene in Cg is full of oddities:
  • Kirk and Spock arrive at the exam room double door but get into the doctor's office (intentional)
  • Nomad is leaving the room but it's actually a shot of Nomad leaving a turbo lift (definitely screwup)
  • Nomad's ride down the corridor is "flopped", suggesting he's hoovering down the corridor clockwise (intentional? the atmospheric control panel Spock is working on is usually at the opposite corridor's end as seen in AT !!!)
Here one could argue that this office (5R 672) is actually next to the isolation bedroom from TI (5R 671) !!!

In the TI corridor we only saw the "Jefferies Tube Corridor" but not the opposite side (i.e. tri-ladder, red door to "engineering" etc.). If I were to present the MG corridor and the one from WE (and consequently TI, too) as two separate corridors in the next draft, I'd definitely keep this option in mind (although I'd feel that two Dr. McCoy offices on the same deck are a little too much. Alternately his office section in his personal cabin on Deck 5 - in contrast to the provisional one on Deck 12 in "The Man Trap" - just looks like his public office).

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25 2013, 12:58 AM   #159
Mytran
Fleet Captain
 
Mytran's Avatar
 
Location: North Wales
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
But there's another "screwup" that got me thinking. The late McCoy office scene in Cg is full of oddities:
  • Kirk and Spock arrive at the exam room double door but get into the doctor's office (intentional)
  • Nomad is leaving the room but it's actually a shot of Nomad leaving a turbo lift (definitely screwup)
  • Nomad's ride down the corridor is "flopped", suggesting he's hoovering down the corridor clockwise (intentional? the atmospheric control panel Spock is working on is usually at the opposite corridor's end as seen in AT !!!)
Here one could argue that this office (5R 672) is actually next to the isolation bedroom from TI (5R 671) !!!

In the TI corridor we only saw the "Jefferies Tube Corridor" but not the opposite side (i.e. tri-ladder, red door to "engineering" etc.). If I were to present the MG corridor and the one from WE (and consequently TI, too) as two separate corridors in the next draft, I'd definitely keep this option in mind (although I'd feel that two Dr. McCoy offices on the same deck are a little too much. Alternately his office section in his personal cabin on Deck 5 - in contrast to the provisional one on Deck 12 in "The Man Trap" - just looks like his public office).

Bob
Nomad appearing out of McCoy's office (with a turbolift background) is something I just attributed to Kirk being so surprised to see the probe that he had a sudden flashback!

However, after watching the scene again, I see no reason why the various scenes can't co-exist in reality:

1. Kirk & Spock receive a call to report to Sickbay. They run down a corridor.
2. They arrive at a DOUBLE door, labelled as McCoy's quarters.
3. The doors open, revealing Nomad. Behind him is a background that resembles a turbolift directional indicator panel.
4. Nomad moves forward and left, establishing the corridor to be of "S" shape design (however slightly). Spock watches Nomad hover slowly away.
5. Kirk runs toward the doors, which open.
6. In McCoy's office set, Kirk walks smartly in, followed by Spock. A SINGLE door closes behind them.

In other words, the DOUBLE doors lead to a short corridor from which McCoy's office (for this episode anyway) is attached. I'll try and rig up a diagram tomorrow, but hopefully you get the jist of my theory.

BTW, this switching of single and double doors has been happening since Season One - one example that has so far gone unmentioned is in BOT: In the penultimate scene Kirk leaves the chapel through double doors, which appear to transform into a single doors prior to his final dutiful stride down the corridor.

The swapping of doors would not be such a problem if they weren't noticeably different sizes - 3' wide for a single door, 4'wide for a double.

On a side note, thank you for drawing my attention to McCoy's wallbound lizard. I can't believe I didn't notice it before!
Mytran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25 2013, 01:22 AM   #160
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Funny enough the door switch-ups gives (me anyway) opportunities to fiddle with the corridor arrangements. It does make it interesting to play with than just re-arranging the same set over and over again based on the backstage set plan, IMHO.
blssdwlf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25 2013, 02:08 AM   #161
Albertese
Commodore
 
Albertese's Avatar
 
Location: Portland, OR
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Funny enough the door switch-ups gives (me anyway) opportunities to fiddle with the corridor arrangements. It does make it interesting to play with than just re-arranging the same set over and over again based on the backstage set plan, IMHO.
Yeah!!! In my own deck plans project, I av introduced an S-curving corridor or two. Enough shows have edits that suggest they're there that I feel it's justified to work in.

--Alex
__________________
Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
Albertese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25 2013, 10:25 AM   #162
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Mytran wrote: View Post
Nomad appearing out of McCoy's office (with a turbolift background) is something I just attributed to Kirk being so surprised to see the probe that he had a sudden flashback!
I like that. Good rationalization for what I consider an obvious flaw (probably during the "heat" of editing this episode)

Mytran wrote: View Post
However, after watching the scene again, I see no reason why the various scenes can't co-exist in reality:

1. Kirk & Spock receive a call to report to Sickbay. They run down a corridor.
2. They arrive at a DOUBLE door, labelled as McCoy's quarters.
3. The doors open, revealing Nomad. Behind him is a background that resembles a turbolift directional indicator panel.
4. Nomad moves forward and left, establishing the corridor to be of "S" shape design (however slightly). Spock watches Nomad hover slowly away.
5. Kirk runs toward the doors, which open.
6. In McCoy's office set, Kirk walks smartly in, followed by Spock. A SINGLE door closes behind them.
I'm not sure what you mean by "co-exist". Obviously there needs to be a doctor's office on the port side because of AT (Kirk's pacing in the office reveals exam room next to it. Chapel leaves through the same door, Spock entered earlier, only this time the "briefing room" door sign proportions on the opposite corridor side are better discernable).
If this corridor extends to the one seen in MG, we have good riddance of the turbo lift # 3 position and a longer corridor enabling better rationalization of Lokai's and Bele's "jogging" on Deck 5 (especially the shot with Bele that reveals a rather long corridor, unobstructed by turbo lifts unless he is running in the outermost corridor, suggested by the red multi-purpose room door that should be yellow in the inner corridor). But - of course - there'd be two similar doctor's offices on Deck 5 with the wall lizards (I have no problem whatsoever with the skulls on the shelves. Even aboard the Defiant the doctor's office had those skulls, so I presume it's a hobby of Starfleet's ship surgeons to collect and compete for exotic skulls...).

1. Yes, but we could debate if this corridor is the one right next to room 5R 672 or somewhere else.
2. Yes
3. "Kirk's odd flashback", otherwise Nomad's speed would suggest that the turbo lift is in the way to other rooms, here.
4. Here, I have to disagree. Nomad might make a swing in the corridor but he is moving clockwise according to flopped shot (which I believe to be intentional). If this scene takes place next to the isolation bedroom 5R 671 (TI) there'd be no need to illustrate an S-shaped corridor (again, the atmospheric panel Spock works is the same one near McCoy's and the tri-ladder in AT, possibly indicating where the DP wanted this scene to take place and the camera movement in TI never reveals this corridor side's part that'd be necessary to locate 5R 672 here)
5. and 6. Yes.

Mytran wrote: View Post
In other words, the DOUBLE doors lead to a short corridor from which McCoy's office (for this episode anyway) is attached. I'll try and rig up a diagram tomorrow, but hopefully you get the jist of my theory.
Perfect! Basically you get inside and have to make a left turn to get to the actual door of McCoy's office. This would also take care of the opposing ladder and door we see when they enter the office in "The Changeling" (maybe this could be an inspiration how to deal with all those briefing room sets on the decks with the quarters. I'm still trying to figure out how the briefing room set could be converted into a multi-bedroom cabin if it's not briefing room, rec room, stairway room or shower room...).

Mytran wrote: View Post
BTW, this switching of single and double doors has been happening since Season One - one example that has so far gone unmentioned is in BOT: In the penultimate scene Kirk leaves the chapel through double doors, which appear to transform into a single doors prior to his final dutiful stride down the corridor.
Is has only gone unmentioned because I haven't dealt with Deck 6, yet. But "thanks" for reminding me of the dilemma.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein

Last edited by Robert Comsol; April 25 2013 at 10:39 AM.
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25 2013, 10:57 PM   #163
Mytran
Fleet Captain
 
Mytran's Avatar
 
Location: North Wales
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Mytran wrote: View Post
...after watching the scene again, I see no reason why the various scenes can't co-exist
I'm not sure what you mean by "co-exist".
I simply meant that the sets could appear in reality for our heroes, rather than relying on "shock flashbacks etc. In my opinion, these sort of get-out clauses should be avoided whenever possible (however useful they might be!)

I also had in mind that this particular office might be completely separate from McCoy's usual one - this is the room attached to his sleeping quarters (in other words, his personal private PERSONAL office). As promised, here is one possible setup of my theory (still a work in progress):




Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Mytran wrote: View Post
4. Nomad moves forward and left, establishing the corridor to be of "S" shape design (however slightly). Spock watches Nomad hover slowly away.
4. Here, I have to disagree. Nomad might make a swing in the corridor but he is moving clockwise according to flopped shot (which I believe to be intentional). If this scene takes place next to the isolation bedroom 5R 671 (TI) there'd be no need to illustrate an S-shaped corridor (again, the atmospheric panel Spock works is the same one near McCoy's and the tri-ladder in AT, possibly indicating where the DP wanted this scene to take place and the camera movement in TI never reveals this corridor side's part that'd be necessary to locate 5R 672 here)
As my diagram above illustrates, a slight wavering of the circular corridor need not be a serious problem. After all, the Season 1 set had just such a twist at one end (again, near the Sickbay set).
As to the reasons why the director & editor chose to use the flopped footage, I believe it was same reason as the "turbolift flashback" - they needed a shot they didn't have, and so re-used a scene from earlier in the episode. In the case of the corridor shot however, they had used the shot only a minute or so earlier - flopping the footage at least helped to make it look slightly different.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Mytran wrote: View Post
...in BOT: In the penultimate scene Kirk leaves the chapel through double doors, which appear to transform into a single doors prior to his final dutiful stride down the corridor.
Is has only gone unmentioned because I haven't dealt with Deck 6, yet. But "thanks" for reminding me of the dilemma.
Worse still, there' no way it can be the same corridor, let alone the same doors - here you can clearly see an A-frame (which is of course absent in the curving corridor)

(click for full size)

Last edited by Mytran; April 25 2013 at 11:08 PM.
Mytran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26 2013, 09:59 AM   #164
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Mytran wrote: View Post
I simply meant that the sets could appear in reality for our heroes, rather than relying on "shock flashbacks etc. In my opinion, these sort of get-out clauses should be avoided whenever possible (however useful they might be!)
Yes, I concur 100%. It should only be a last resort and prior to reading your post I speculated what that could be that looks like a turbo lift inside.
Because of the similar shape of the "turbo lift window" and the "handle allusion" I thought that might be a storage place for an antigrav unit (someone in the medical department is currently using, that's why the antigrav unit is not in place...).
Obviously you can move the examination and excercise table but what about those bulky beds (just the other day I had a morbid thought: these beds also serve as coffins in case the patient died. The entire shape of the sickbay beds looks like you could put a cover hatch on these...)?

As for the "environmental ladder" booth (good thing we don't see the ladder) I thought this might be a storage space for McCoy's EVA space suit. I think at least the senior officers on the ship should have their personal EVA suits in their quarters. In case of an emergency decompression that would still enable the senior officers to act.

Mytran wrote: View Post
I also had in mind that this particular office might be completely separate from McCoy's usual one - this is the room attached to his sleeping quarters (in other words, his personal private PERSONAL office)...As my diagram above illustrates, a slight wavering of the circular corridor need not be a serious problem. After all, the Season 1 set had just such a twist at one end (again, near the Sickbay set).
Yes, I had the same thought. Normally, I'd agree that the wavering of the Season 1 corridor end wouldn't be a problem (in AT we do not see the end of the corridor when Spock leaves the turbo lift) but in this case there's still the corridor end from TI (security crewmen exiting turbo lift) and in Cg we (fortunately) don't see the entire corridor end...

I see that in your graphic the office is to the right. Let me try both options in the Deck 5 revision to see which one raises less questions than the other.

Mytran wrote: View Post
As to the reasons why the director & editor chose to use the flopped footage, I believe it was same reason as the "turbolift flashback" - they needed a shot they didn't have, and so re-used a scene from earlier in the episode. In the case of the corridor shot however, they had used the shot only a minute or so earlier - flopping the footage at least helped to make it look slightly different.
I think you're right but I believe the DP's intention was only to tell us, that this scene takes place where we'd usually (expect to) see the tri-ladder and the brig before the engineering section set, so I'm inclined not to take it too literal. Like the aforementioned turbo lift shot with Nomad, the resolution of this shot is of bad quality (in HD) and doesn't have the crystal sharp look.

Mytran wrote: View Post
Worse still, there' no way it can be the same corridor, let alone the same doors - here you can clearly see an A-frame (which is of course absent in the curving corridor)

(click for full size)
Oh my, I had never noticed the A-frame earlier. Good eyes!
But this is almost a friendly reminder not to take the footage too literal. I'm grateful that the clever editing (though apparently not 100% perfect at all times) provided us with more interesting spaces to discover. If I'm not mistaken this is one of the few instances where they added a side door to the set before it became a standard feature in Season 3.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26 2013, 01:22 PM   #165
Mytran
Fleet Captain
 
Mytran's Avatar
 
Location: North Wales
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

I suppose it depends how much credence you'll want to give to "director's intent" over what actually ended up on screen.

For example, the chapel was clearly intended to seem to open up onto the main corridor, for Kirk's final stride. Putting a 4' door in place of the 3' door would not mess up the structural integrity of the ship and besides the barely glimpsed tri-arch this planned layout does not conflict with anything else. So, should we take it as the truth?

Likewise the 4' double door into McCoy's office could easily be shrunk to a 3' size to match with the office interior - as clearly was the director's intention.

In fact, "director's intent" could smooth over a lot of the stickier points in interpreting the Television Enterprise.

HOWEVER (and this is just my own personal opinion) I do feel that what we see on screen should be given priority over design and directorial intent (whacky flashbacks not withstanding). The final appearance of the episode is what forms the "historical documents" and however useful the intent of the director and set designer (?forced perspective abuse!) might be in guiding our understanding, the end result is what really matters

FWIW

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
If I'm not mistaken this is one of the few instances where they added a side door to the set before it became a standard feature in Season 3.
Yep, I don't think this side door was used again until The Tholian Web, 2 years later! Design-wise, it is an odd place to have a door, especially with another one so near round the corner. Luckily, the two are not onscreen together very often.
Mytran is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:27 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.