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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old April 21 2013, 11:11 PM   #181
NightJim
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Coldfire

Another one of the episodes I strangely remember quite well, though parts of it were what I thought were Kes' leaving episode. All my references to Kes' super powers were because I remembered this. What really surprised me was that they didn't even get the benefit of a quick short cut. I thought they fell every now and again and we've not had one yet. It's weird that all the stuff I remember having a problem with doesn't really seem to be that prevalent.

Resistance

I have to admit these are the type of episodes I really enjoy, as straight-action as they are. This wasn't a bad example of one, though I did especially like Janeway looking like a stereo-typical member of the French Underground in WW2, nicely put you in the frame of mind of it.


In both these episodes we also have the fact that Voyager is earning itself a reputation as a Warship - and Resistance probably strengthens that - I really like it. Despite their intentions, most space faring races they come across they are getting into scrapes with, and it makes sense. It offers a good contrast to how Starfleet are usually seen. I can't remember what the show does with it, but I hope it does it well.
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Old April 27 2013, 08:14 PM   #182
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Prototype

I kinda liked it. Really liked the opening. The 'robots rose up and killed their masters' is a bit tired but it works it nicely. It was good to see a hint of Janeway's science background too.

Shame the design of the robots was severely lacking. It was almost TOS levels of design. And why did the other alien races' robots look exactly the same but gold? I guess we can extrapolate that they were initially friendly, then after developing the tech went to war, but a bit too much fridge logic I think.

One good moment that made me chuckle was the Chakotay made a comment about not wanting to lose another shuttle. Seems one writer was aware that they should have a finite supply, and three (?) destroyed already was getting silly. Wonder where he disappeared to later on?
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Old April 27 2013, 08:36 PM   #183
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Those were some of the worst robots I'd seen in my life, and this is after all the schlocky robots of the 1930s-1950s.
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Old April 28 2013, 09:11 AM   #184
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

They really were bad. Nice nod to Data in the dialogue though.

Alliances.

Now this is what Voyager should be about. Struggling to survive out here in the Delta Quadrant and keep their Federation ideals in tact. Though it felt like the story needed to be more than one episode. The Trabe double cross had little impact because of it. Introduced halfway into the episode, of course it became obvious throughout that it was coming anyway. Nice Godfather part 3 reference from it anyway.

I found Janeway's speech at the end a bit heavy handed; check we've got enough supplies then "We don't need allies, we have our principles, now Tom put your foot down so we don't have to stop for anyone."

Next up... Threshold... oh.
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Old April 28 2013, 09:41 AM   #185
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

The Trabe were sort of interesting. I think I would have preferred their sneakiness to the dumbass brutishness of the Kazon as continuing villains. Definitely Anthony Zerbe types.
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Old April 28 2013, 09:43 AM   #186
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Alliances... yeah, just remember Janeway's condescending attitude towards working with the bad guys and her holier than thou speech about sticking to their principles no matter the cost in the future.

Plus the Maquis just have to love Janeway. They've basically been conscripted into a military they don't like against their will and have a commander who bluntly states she's more than willing to sacrifice their lives for values they don't believe in.
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Old April 28 2013, 11:20 AM   #187
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

I certainly would have liked the Trabe built up more, or reappear after this, they were pretty cool concept. From what I've seen so far, the season was meant to be Kazon-centric and this concept would have really strengthened that. Dump Tattoo and Threshold for more stuff like this and it could have been a pretty strong theme.

R. Star - you certainly have a point about Janeway at the start of this. She's just setting the Marquis against her at the start of this episode. And being pretty stupid about it, she just wouldn't shift from her perspective, and takes several prompts to even consider it. Then at the end everything goes wrong on the first attempt because she chose to side with new aliens instead of the Kazon because Cullah's a bit of a dick and she basically says "SEE I WAS RIGHT!"

I don't understand why she didn't deliver the lead Trabe to the Kazon, or at least contemplate it. He did try and assassinate them, that can't be a breach of the Prime Directive and would have been a nice peace offering. At least shown her trying to decide that and make a hard decision. This could have made for a really good two parter.
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Old April 28 2013, 06:20 PM   #188
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Sorry I'm a bit late to your review thread, NightJim. I'm all caught up now, and I've enjoyed getting your take on the first couple seasons. I always love hearing new viewpoints from other Trek fans. (Well, not hearing, in this case, but you know what I mean.)

I agree that "Alliances" should have been a two-parter. There's far too much delicious tension and conflict for just one episode.

And I can't wait to read your review of "Threshold". You're in for quite a treat. Where's the maniacal laugh emoticon? I guess this will have to do:

I've recently decided that "Unexpected" is the "Threshold" of Enterprise. Wow, what a stinker.
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Old April 28 2013, 07:03 PM   #189
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Thanks, Ryva and wait no longer.

Threshold

I did see this way back when, and was half tempted to skip it. It's rubbish, we all know it's rubbish. So sum up less obvious thoughts than: We evolve into frog like sea creatures? That seems like devolve to me.

The cold open has Paris dying in a shuttle experiment, but reveal it to be a holodeck simulation before the intro rolls, excellent way to kill any dramatic tension built up.

How many times can they say the name of the episode? It's like they're going for some sort of record.

Shame that during the first greats of flying Yuri Gagarin didn't get a shout out.

Voyager is capable of 9.975 but if it hits 9.9 the ship nearly rips itself apart? Seriously along with everything else in this episode, this is ridiculous. Why not the old power consumption problem that we know to be a factor. Instead the ship can't handle it's top speed. Whoever let this thing out of the Utopia Plantia needs sacking.

On a more seriously level, McNeil does a good job as he realises he's dying before he morphs into a mutant out of Fallout.

Is the shuttle they convert to Transwarp different to any we've seen before on the show? If I remember correctly everything's been the boxlike ones from TNG, this one was a sleek little number.

I also made a note for a brief two hearts/timelord joke but the ending killed off any interest in making that.
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Old April 28 2013, 07:24 PM   #190
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

In defense of the frog-like sea creatures: there's no such thing as devolving. Evolution is not linear.

That being said, nothing - not even Enterprise's Unexpected - is as bad as Threshold.

If Sybok captured Voyager and took Janeway to fight a duel on Ligon II with Janice Lester in Quark's body... it would not be as bad as Threshold.
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Old April 28 2013, 08:15 PM   #191
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

It's sort of the reaction I had when seeing a midnight showing of Rocky Horror Picture Show for the first time in 1979, and before the film they showed several early videos by DEVO. Except DEVO was brilliant.
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Old April 29 2013, 05:06 PM   #192
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Meld

I needed this after Threshold. Nice Silent of the Lambs feel to it. Though I think throughout I couldn't help but feel that Suder was manipulating Tuvok to the level that Lector does. Maybe it's just the calm or the way the part is played. It seems like Suder knows what he's doing letting Tuvok meld, and is trying to make it worse.

I really enjoyeed Tuvok's obsession and his inability to process humanity's (betazoid in this case) implusive violent tendencies before the meld too. His complete lack of understanding and that response could be said to be quite emotional. His losing it with Neelix was fantastic too. Shame it was on the holodeck.

Also, Tuvok has an office, I love these little shots of proper

What was that whole thing with Paris in the B-Story? After coming to a big realisation of himself post-Threshold he's gone off the deep end. Doesn't ring right, or it needed some better explanation. Hopefully that's coming.
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Old April 29 2013, 07:37 PM   #193
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Suder's an interesting character. Really though... on what level did Tuvok think melding with a man who admittedly has uncontrollable violent impulses... was a good idea? It's not like he even learned anything useful. Tuvok just reports to Janeway that... he's uncontrollably violent. What a revelation!

Also... gotta rant on this. Janeway's decision to lock Suder in his quarters? Seriously... Suder just randomly killed another crew member and Janeway tells him to go to his room? It's not like the alternatives are just morally repugnant to Janeway either. In future episodes she demonstrates she has no problem killing members of the crew when she thinks the situation warrants it -or- locking members of the crew into the brig for long periods of time.

There are procedures for trial cases without court personnel as demonstrated in Measure of a Man. It would naturally fall on Janeway to judge him... which being judgmental is no problem to her... but even if she doesn't want to do that... fine... put him in one of those nice stasis tubes the Doctor has until you get home then and a real judge can have a field day with him. Only down side to that one is Suder's gonna argue sleeping for x years as time served.

I think the real reason is Janeway's just too sinister to waste a valuable resource as a real live serial killer, so it may be handy to have him around in the future.

Also, the Paris arc... well there's a method to it all... him slowly turning into a screw up is kind of a subplot for the next few episodes.
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Old April 29 2013, 10:24 PM   #194
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

I loved "Meld", despite the flaws that R. Star pointed out. Yeah, Tuvok didn't need to meld with a mentally disturbed man, but his transformation into an uncontrolled, uninhibited, downright dangerous Vulcan was fascinating to watch. I thought Tim Russ did a great job, without going overboard. Also, there's the whole holographic-Neelix-strangling scene. That probably satisfied a lot of fans.

And I've always been a fan of Brad Dourif's acting. No one does "creepy" quite like him.
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Old April 30 2013, 02:51 AM   #195
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

You will really enjoy the series, for sure.
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