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Old February 24 2013, 06:13 PM   #31
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

Albertese wrote: View Post
^^^
Nope. I believe this is art for the Cut-away model kit from AMT that you mention. The Sci-pub-tech poster presents the ship at a totally different angle.

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137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
^^^ Yes, I stand corrected.

My memory really sucks lately.
If it helps:
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Old April 5 2013, 02:24 AM   #32
Dar70
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

I think it is kind of cool in an abstract way. I doubt this was meant to have colored doors and people walking the corridors. It looks no less detailed than the cutaway model. I will bet even with the negtivity here and at hobbytalk these will still sell like hotcakes and increase a bit in price with time. There are many completists out there that collect the diamond select ships and they will probably add this and use it as a genral reference peic next to a complete ship.
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Old April 5 2013, 02:25 PM   #33
137th Gebirg
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

Normally I would agree. Normally I would buy something like this, with the hopes that others would as well, to support the production of such memorabilia. This would, ideally, lead to the production of higher-quality items once the studio realized that there was profit to be made and more money could be invested in making a better product.

Instead, the studio has opted to not support higher-quality products like this - but instead, charge an exorbitant amount of money for an insultingly less-than-acceptable piece of sub-par merchandise that even the most die-hard completest fans would likely not want to have anything to do with. The studio would then turn around, confidently pronounce that "Trek is dead" (again) and that there was no more point to investing any money into the franchise, as (in their pinched little minds) nobody is interested any more.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, one where the future of TOS/classic-era products may be circling the drain, I'm afraid. I don't even really see much of anything all that impressive based on the TNG/DS9/Voy-era, either.
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Old April 5 2013, 03:11 PM   #34
Robert Comsol
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
The studio would then turn around, confidently pronounce that "Trek is dead" (again) and that there was no more point to investing any money into the franchise, as (in their pinched little minds) nobody is interested any more.
On the bright side we had this beautiful Polar Lights 1/350 TOS Enterprise model kit in a "compatible" release timeframe.

If its sale figures are good or even better that should be a good indicator how much actual interest there still is in TOS products (or high quality products - i.e. model kits - where sales aren't limited to die hard trekkers only).

Inevitably there'll be some comparison between the sales figures of both of these Enterprise miniatures. Hopefully these will pave the road for more high quality products (yes, I still want my 1/35 TOS studio set assembly kit where I can "lego" together various sections of the ship. That would enable us to create a 1/35 version of the starship ).

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Old April 5 2013, 04:03 PM   #35
137th Gebirg
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

^^^ Very true. The Polar Lights kits have generally been a cool drink of water in a very big desert. They are a bit pricey, and some of the older kits are getting hard to find (NX-01, first-gen refit) but, yes, the quality is of a caliber that makes people want to buy them regardless of the cost. Hopefully one day, studio execs will recognize that and adjust their business model accordingly.
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Old April 7 2013, 03:10 PM   #36
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

I think PL is planning on reissuing the 350 NX.

I was crazy enough to buy 8 of the first issue 350 refit kits (still haven't built one!), so if anyone wants one, I'll be glad to part with one for, say, $75 including shipping (CONUS only).
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Old April 20 2013, 07:29 PM   #37
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

Racer_X wrote: View Post
The Startrek.com website just announced a few products coming out later this year, including a cutaway model of the original USS Enterprise from Dragon Models. The high-res photo looks like it'll be based off of the Drexler cutaway diagram. It's 18" long, all for the low, low price of $175! With a lot lower price, it might be a cool novelty item to have, but at $175, I dunno....
More exploitation of the fans by TPTB...

If you want the definitive cutaway of the original starship Enterprise, seek out Franz Joseph's Booklet of General Plans... I paid around $6 for mine nearly forty years ago and that included deck plans for all decks...
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Old April 20 2013, 09:28 PM   #38
Albertese
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
...

If you want the definitive cutaway of the original starship Enterprise, seek out Franz Joseph's Booklet of General Plans... I paid around $6 for mine nearly forty years ago and that included deck plans for all decks...

The FJ plans are hardly definitive. I would say it's merely inspired by the show, not exactly a super-accurate representation of the ship as seen on the show.

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Old April 21 2013, 03:47 AM   #39
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

That's your opinion, but I've seen none better... Flashier, more colorful, bigger, glossier, and higher in resolution...Yes. But none Better...

FJ got there first and set the standard which influenced countless other Booklets of General Plans... That can't be taken away...
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Old April 21 2013, 06:46 AM   #40
MauriceNavidad
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

Someone loves beating a particular drum.
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Old April 21 2013, 08:18 AM   #41
Albertese
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
That's your opinion, but I've seen none better... Flashier, more colorful, bigger, glossier, and higher in resolution...Yes. But none Better...

FJ got there first and set the standard which influenced countless other Booklets of General Plans... That can't be taken away...
Well, if we're going to drag opinion into this, then I am a huge fan of FJ's work. The Technical Manual and the Booklet of General Plans are both incredible triumphs in terms of sheer creativity and professionalism and they exhibit a very logical thought process--one which set a high bar for technical fiction, indeed, practically inventing the genre. I have nothing but praise for FJ's work and still regularly look through both of them... far more often than I peruse the pages of the flashier, newer stuff like the DS9 tech manual or even the TNG TM. In fact, it's fair to say that my private Star Trek universe that exists in my brain skews more towards the FJ material than what we did see on the show...

...which brings me to the next point.

If we look over the FJ work and compare them to what most fans would look for in something like this--fidelity to what was shown on-screen--then FJ is hardly definitive. His work is plainly, objectively, at variance with the source material. He personally stated, more than once, than he was drawing the ship as he thought it should be, as a real life engineer, rather than sticking slavishly to what appeared on-screen. And the differences are so extensive that any but the most casual observer will start picking out the differences one at a time. If you do what I have done (and plenty of others even on this board) and compare it all to stuff from the show, you'll eventually find that not a single page actually definitively matches anything on the show.

It's all close, but the FJ stuff is explicitly a gentle re-imagining.

That's all I'm saying...

--Alex
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Old April 21 2013, 03:25 PM   #42
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

Here it goes again, the old bait and switch... Top paragraph: "I'm a huge fan of FJ's work..." Bottom paragraph: "FJ didn't know jackshit..."

Kinda reminds me of another thread somewhere... Yeah, substitute JD for FJ!

Listen, you show me Better blueprints of the old Enterprise and I'll listen to you... I'm not talking about Exteriors (we've plenty of them) but ones with DECK Plans... I've gone through many of them and none beat FJ's... Oh, you can argue about no "warp core" in there--but Treknical fans of old do not believe in such a contraption Within the hull but intermix chambers in the nacelles...which is also where the antimatter is stored (much safer that way)... And no life boats: Treknical fans of old believed the turbolift cars served as ejectable lifeboats...

Yes, it's a matter of Interpretation...but if the best you can come up with is a jazzed up blueprint set from Strategic Design or what have you published within the last decade or so, then it's a case of too little WAY TOO LATE, since the FJ blueprints served as Guides for many, MANY Trek authors and fans and modellers and Gamers for DECADES...

Just as the "prime" universe got flushed down a galactic toilet, you'd best concentrate on the latest and greatest Enterprise right now... You know, with the Apple Store upstairs, the Brewery downstairs, and that insane hangar deck with pylons blocking the way...
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Old April 21 2013, 06:56 PM   #43
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

Edit - ignore. I actually can't be bothered. Suffice it to say though, Lenny your overbloated theatrics put me right off this entire thread.
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Old April 21 2013, 08:58 PM   #44
nightwind1
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

Blip wrote: View Post
Edit - ignore. I actually can't be bothered. Suffice it to say though, Lenny your overbloated theatrics put me right off this entire thread.
It's been that way ever since FidoNET and USENet.
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Old April 21 2013, 09:09 PM   #45
Albertese
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Re: Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Here it goes again, the old bait and switch... Top paragraph: "I'm a huge fan of FJ's work..." Bottom paragraph: "FJ didn't know jackshit..."
--Shouldn't use quotation marks for something that's not a quote. I find your remarks unfair, vitriolic, and totally unfounded. If you actually read my post, you may have noticed that I never once even implied that 'FJ didn't know jack,' but, rather, that he chose to take some creative licence with the designs. That's a real big difference.

...

Listen, you show me Better blueprints of the old Enterprise and I'll listen to you... I'm not talking about Exteriors (we've plenty of them)...
--Here you seem to imply that the newer measured drawings of the Enterprise are more accurate than what appeared in the FJ work... what gives?

...but ones with DECK Plans... I've gone through many of them and none beat FJ's...
--Oh yeah, I agree that none of the published stuff I've ever seen is as complete as the FJ stuff. He was nothing if not thorough, which is part of why his material is so great.

...Oh, you can argue about no "warp core" in there--but Treknical fans of old do not believe in such a contraption Within the hull but intermix chambers in the nacelles...which is also where the antimatter is stored (much safer that way)...
--The heck!?!? Where did I say anything about a warp core? I post quite a lot on Trek Tech and over in Trek Art, and, if you've ever followed any of the discussions in which I've participated, you might find that I'm a strong proponent of "fuel + reactors in the nacelles where MJ said they were." You're on a rant for no good reason!

And no life boats: Treknical fans of old believed the turbolift cars served as ejectable lifeboats...
--According to FJ, the only lifeboat functions were that the saucer could be separated and could support the entire crew as a lifeboat or the secondary hull could support the entire crew under emergency conditions. Geoffrey Mandel's Enterprise Officer's Manual put forth the idea that the turbolifts could be used as escape pods. It's kind of a clever idea but that's the only place I've seen it. Which makes it the outlier. The same book also suggested that the entire "command gondola" (the teardrop section beneath the bridge) could also be ejected and act as a lifeboat. Again, that's the only place that idea shows up. FJTM and TMoST both only mention the saucer separation option for lifeboating...

Yes, it's a matter of Interpretation...but if the best you can come up with is a jazzed up blueprint set from Strategic Design or what have you published within the last decade or so, then it's a case of too little WAY TOO LATE, since the FJ blueprints served as Guides for many, MANY Trek authors and fans and modellers and Gamers for DECADES...
--I've never actually seen the TOS E from Strategic Design. But I do agree with you that FJ's work inspired uncountable creative works by plenty of Trek fans, myself included.

The thing is that FJ had only the following reference items:
--Film frames in slide form from the Franklin Mint
--The book The Making of Star Trek
--The AMT model kit of the Enterprise
--Catching the show on TV during it's syndication re-runs

Given what he had to work with, the work he finished was outstanding. In a class by itself.

But, the wealth of information we have today, the ability to screen-grab any frame from the show, the additional behind the scenes information that has been released since the mid-70's... Today, we just have so much more to go go on than he did. There are two projects on TrekBBS, by blssdwlf and Robert Comsol that are both interpreting, in different ways, versions of the interior of the ship that match not only the appearance of the sets as they appeared on screen, but even making sure that they match the dialogue and the editing as best as possible. These are on their way to becoming a much more definitive version of what was seen on Star Trek than FJ was able to do. Or, even intended to do. And, I might add, that both of those guys are takingcare to use just information from TOS... no ret-conning.

Just as the "prime" universe got flushed down a galactic toilet, you'd best concentrate on the latest and greatest Enterprise right now... You know, with the Apple Store upstairs, the Brewery downstairs, and that insane hangar deck with pylons blocking the way...
I'm not a fan of the new version of the ship. But, it seems that a lot of people aren't. I don't know if you follow the merchandising of Star Trek right now, but the most of it is stuff that ties into Shatner's Kirk and crew and Stewart's Picard and company. J.J. Trek gets a bit of love here and there, but I'm surprised just how much the Prime universe gets paid attention to by the marketers, especially with the new movies just weeks away.

--Alex
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