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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old April 21 2013, 04:09 PM   #121
Bumbles861
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

KD, Christopher L Bennett is probably the most accurate when it comes to anybody writing. It is absolutely ludicrous for anyone to use the word 'snowjob' WRT Bennett's work. I think you are being baited.
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Old April 21 2013, 04:39 PM   #122
F. King Daniel
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

bbailey861 wrote: View Post
KD, Christopher L Bennett is probably the most accurate when it comes to anybody writing. It is absolutely ludicrous for anyone to use the word 'snowjob' WRT Bennett's work. I think you are being baited.
It's looking that way, unfortunately.
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Old April 21 2013, 05:49 PM   #123
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

I could be wrong then. What I do seem to recall hearing at some point was that Roddenberry thought an odd number of nacelles would be like a helicopter without the right number of rotors to balance its torque. But unfortunately I can't recall a specific context, so I was trying to remember if any such description might have been floating around. It could have easily surfaced after the "rules" came out.
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Old April 21 2013, 07:12 PM   #124
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

I thought the ideal of each nacelle being a self contained engine came from Matt Jefferies? That being the reason they were out on the pylons: it was safer that way if something went wrong.
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Old April 21 2013, 07:17 PM   #125
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
I read it... It's technobabble bunk of the highest order...
"Forgotten History" is just as bad, if not more so...
I also love how the author quotes all these science books at the end to lend credibility to it all, too!
I know a snowjob when I see a snowjob...
You might want to read THIS to get a vague idea how much research and effort went into that "technobabble bunk." I'd think you of all people would appreciate an author doing his research - but it seems that unless they reach the exact same conclusions you do, it's all for naught
If few key words placed within a novel's narrative...

Along similar lines, there's a book or two that explains how the holy Kuran agrees with modern scientific teachings, too... I think they even drag in quantum mechanics to justify that...

But getting back to the skewed topic... Just because that particular author just happens to hang out and post around here, naturally has Absolutely nothing to do with one's praise for him...Of Course...

I'm sure that if Sondra Marshak & Myrna Culbreath were on Here, they would also be hailed as the greatest of Trek authors...blah, blah blah...

This is why I'm shutting up now, one word: Bias...

I have my likes and dislikes, and you have yours...
I'm not here to appease authors...

Last edited by Lenny Nurdbol; April 21 2013 at 07:22 PM. Reason: recovering from too much Klingomulan ale...
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Old April 21 2013, 07:32 PM   #126
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
I thought the ideal of each nacelle being a self contained engine came from Matt Jefferies? That being the reason they were out on the pylons: it was safer that way if something went wrong.
You got that right the first time, MJ or FJ, they both were reasoning along the same lines... You go to the top of the class...

Geoffrey Mandel finalized it in a detailed blueprint showing its interior to match various episodes...

The new engines on the refit Enterprise changed the ship's Engineering section and reactor placements considerably... From that the 1701-D design evolved... After that, the original Enterprise's engine design was forgotten and rewritten to reflect the latest and greatest design in TNG... And those people pretended that what goes for -D goes for All Starships throughout time and space... You know: the warp core was always there in TOS but we never saw it, the large cargo complex in the secondary hull was always there but we never saw it, the huge rec deck was always there but we never saw it...
The VIP Lounge was always there but we never saw it...
And maybe Kirk even had a ready room and a pet fish and we never saw them either!

Last edited by Lenny Nurdbol; April 21 2013 at 07:34 PM. Reason: minor fixup...
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Old April 21 2013, 07:37 PM   #127
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Unicron wrote: View Post
I could be wrong then. What I do seem to recall hearing at some point was that Roddenberry thought an odd number of nacelles would be like a helicopter without the right number of rotors to balance its torque. But unfortunately I can't recall a specific context, so I was trying to remember if any such description might have been floating around. It could have easily surfaced after the "rules" came out.
All I can say is that these "rules" came out Long after TOS, decades after... And most likely after GR passed away...
They were also relayed unofficially or as hearsay...
I'd bet my life that they didn't come from the mouth of the Great Bird...
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Old April 21 2013, 09:03 PM   #128
F. King Daniel
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
But getting back to the skewed topic... Just because that particular author just happens to hang out and post around here, naturally has Absolutely nothing to do with one's praise for him...Of Course...

I'm sure that if Sondra Marshak & Myrna Culbreath were on Here, they would also be hailed as the greatest of Trek authors...blah, blah blah...

This is why I'm shutting up now, one word: Bias...

I have my likes and dislikes, and you have yours...
I'm not here to appease authors...
Says the guy who won't accept the truth about and blindly worships Franz Joseph and Gene Roddenberry. No, I'm not appeasing any authors. Christopher and I have disagreed on and argued a ton of things.
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Old April 21 2013, 11:58 PM   #129
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Yep, you can dislike his books, but in no way can you dismiss Christopher's attention to detail. He'll school you on pretty much any subject you can think of. And he has to many people here.

It is funny that Lenny Nurdboi accepts his own authorities but everyone else is just pandering.

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
You know: the warp core was always there in TOS but we never saw it, the large cargo complex in the secondary hull was always there but we never saw it, the huge rec deck was always there but we never saw it...
The VIP Lounge was always there but we never saw it...
And maybe Kirk even had a ready room and a pet fish and we never saw them either!
You know by this definition you've just ruled that %95 of what Franz Joseph drew is in fact not canon. We never saw it. Talk about backing yourself into a corner with your own argument!
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Old April 22 2013, 12:49 AM   #130
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

sojourner wrote: View Post
Yep, you can dislike his books, but in no way can you dismiss Christopher's attention to detail. He'll school you on pretty much any subject you can think of. And he has to many people here.

It is funny that Lenny Nurdboi accepts his own authorities but everyone else is just pandering.

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
You know: the warp core was always there in TOS but we never saw it, the large cargo complex in the secondary hull was always there but we never saw it, the huge rec deck was always there but we never saw it...
The VIP Lounge was always there but we never saw it...
And maybe Kirk even had a ready room and a pet fish and we never saw them either!
You know by this definition you've just ruled that %95 of what Franz Joseph drew is in fact not canon. We never saw it. Talk about backing yourself into a corner with your own argument!
1. Except your Christopher's attention to detail doesn't take into account Tech Fandom, as in self-contained non-networked warp drive nacelles which he blatantly violates in his last novel...since the Enterprise DID NOT have the same warp drive nacelles from start to finish of her 5-year mission... She was launched with PB-31 nacelles, were replaced with PB-32 nacelles by the time of "Corbomite Maneuver" and between "All Our Yesterdays" and "Beyond The Farthest Star" was upgraded with PB-47 nacelles... So that pretty much shoots the logic behind his story to hell... But your revered writer is thinking that the same warp drive tech aboard 1701-D holds 100% true for 1701...

2. No, by my definition, FJ's stuff is more official than ever Because It Actually Appeared On Viewscreens in the feature films! Or did you sleep through V'ger's bridge assault and take-over of the ship's computer?
Not my fault that other writers who followed ignored them...
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Old April 22 2013, 01:28 AM   #131
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

You do realize that FJ was asked by Paramount to serve as a consultant of some sort when TMP was being made, because of how successful the TM and associated works had been, and that he declined that offer? On the grounds that he didn't want Roddenberry to feel he was dictating how technology should exist in the Star Trek universe?

According to his daughter Karen, in this interview of 1999, it was her understanding that the little snippets of FJ's work which were included in the first three films were done by production staff who happened to enjoy his contributions and technical work. He was never given any formal credit for those elements, and his decision to not accept the opportunities as a creative consultant could have arguably hurt him since it allowed Gene and Paramount to dismiss his work later as being "non-canon" stuff.
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Old April 22 2013, 01:37 AM   #132
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Unicron wrote: View Post
According to his daughter Karen, in this interview of 1999, it was her understanding that the little snippets of FJ's work which were included in the first three films were done by production staff who happened to enjoy his contributions and technical work. He was never given any formal credit for those elements, and his decision to not accept the opportunities as a creative consultant could have arguably hurt him since it allowed Gene and Paramount to dismiss his work later as being "non-canon" stuff.
I found it extremely interesting to learn that she was shaking with rage during her first viewing of TMP. If I ever see that one again, I'm going to be very keen to catch the Tech Manual references if possible.
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Old April 22 2013, 02:54 AM   #133
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post

2. No, by my definition, FJ's stuff is more official than ever Because It Actually Appeared On Viewscreens in the feature films! Or did you sleep through V'ger's bridge assault and take-over of the ship's computer?
Not my fault that other writers who followed ignored them...
Nope, very little of those blueprints were seen, only snippets. So the majority of his layouts are not canon. Sorry, if it wasn't on screen, it's not canon. To this day large parts of all of the Enterprises DO NOT EXIST as canon.
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Old April 22 2013, 04:12 AM   #134
DCR
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

sojourner wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post

2. No, by my definition, FJ's stuff is more official than ever Because It Actually Appeared On Viewscreens in the feature films! Or did you sleep through V'ger's bridge assault and take-over of the ship's computer?
Not my fault that other writers who followed ignored them...
Nope, very little of those blueprints were seen, only snippets. So the majority of his layouts are not canon. Sorry, if it wasn't on screen, it's not canon. To this day large parts of all of the Enterprises DO NOT EXIST as canon.
This is why I focus on what I call my own "head canon," more than the official canon. I know FJ isn't canon, but some of it makes more sense to me than canon, so when I assemble things in my head, it stays.
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Old April 22 2013, 04:27 AM   #135
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Oh, right, only snippets are seen so only the snippets are "canon"... And then maybe only those snippets seen on Tuesday are "official"...
And I love how that particular interview is hauled out each and every time...
Maybe if I had interviewed GR on a bad day when he was disgruntled over the production of TNG's first season and damned it, fans would "de-canonize" the first season of TNG based strictly on the Bird's word... Bird is the word!

Why don't you guys just admit that you have this vengeance against FJ which was the whole point of creating a thread about it in the first place... Maybe because Okuda's the head honcho these days in "Treknicaldom" and FJ's contributions make His look rather unremarkable in the art department so it's best to Damn FJ to hell and keep his works well-buried, away from curious prying eyes of the new generation... Gotta keep discouraging the younger fans from seeking out the original works lest they maybe change their minds...
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