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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old April 20 2013, 07:04 PM   #106
CrazyMatt
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

The thing I remember most about FJ's effort was his attempt to assign registry numbers for all the Constitution-class ships... and to suggest that all except the Constellation and Republic fell into line nicely with NCC-1701 just seemed ridiculous to me... What would be the odds that all the other starships were numbered sequentially when the two besides the Enterprise discussed or seen in TOS weren't? That in itself invalidated the whole concept of him as "authoritative" regarding Star Trek concepts... in my mind he was just an interloper.
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Old April 20 2013, 07:21 PM   #107
DCR
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

One thing I wonder is if the age and time at which one first encountered FJ might have something to do with how a person thinks of his work now.

For me it was a shining light in the wasteland after TAS was cancelled and before TMP.
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Old April 20 2013, 07:52 PM   #108
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
The thing I remember most about FJ's effort was his attempt to assign registry numbers for all the Constitution-class ships... and to suggest that all except the Constellation and Republic fell into line nicely with NCC-1701 just seemed ridiculous to me... What would be the odds that all the other starships were numbered sequentially when the two besides the Enterprise discussed or seen in TOS weren't? That in itself invalidated the whole concept of him as "authoritative" regarding Star Trek concepts... in my mind he was just an interloper.
You can get any hardcore Treknical guru to answer this one, but I'd might as well step in...

Real ships that float on oceans are produced this way with serial registry numbers and, yes, that includes our famous Space Shuttle which takes to space, or is that Took to space...

As for FJ being authoritative, Gene approved of his work and the amount of work FJ--an aerospace engineer/draftsman--put into it is absolutely astounding, especially by todays standards when any computer nerd with CAD software can churn out stuff... FJ was the first and the greatest... He Made Treknical Fandom! No other science fiction vehicle can make this claim! There are even some Tech fans who reportedly have built shrines to the memory of Franz Joseph... You don't get that kind of respect doing half-assed work and not knowing what you're doing...

But let me hit that on the head regarding Registry numbers and those oddball ships... According to Treknical Fandom manuals, the Constellation and Republic were originally older starships of the Horizon and Archon classes... They were upgraded and served as testbed vessels for the soon-to-be-produced Constitution class...
The USS Constitution was the lead ship, the first new-build starship, and thus carried the NCC-1700 number and nominal class name... The sister ships which followed were laid down, launched, and commissioned sequentially... I'd go into discussing the next generation of heavy cruiser classes--how they are interpreted in Tech Fandom--and how the Constitutions were refitted to incorporate the newer technologies (Bonhomme Richard and Achernar classes), but you've already made your mind up about this, uh, fan-drivel so it would be a waste of my typing skills...

What pisses us first-generation Treknical fans off most is the amount of respect given to that wall chart in "Court Martial" which consists of nothing more than random numbers of ships apparently being serviced at that moment at Starbase 11...
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Old April 20 2013, 08:12 PM   #109
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post

Funny, I didn't see the ball and socket phasers in any of Matt Jefferies drawings...
Image. They are very widely spaced, however.
Sorry, I just don't see it.
Yes, these are the drawings I was also talking about. Thanks for the link, Maurice. Nice to know that these are by Jefferies. The phaser banks are clearly visible, as described; they always were.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Ball-and-socket phaser banks are clearly visible in the port and forward elevations of the Enterprise printed in The Making of Star Trek, although not in the same places that FJ put them. They're on the front underside of the saucer, but higher up and more widely spaced. Are these drawings by Jefferies?
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Old April 21 2013, 05:52 AM   #110
ZapBrannigan
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Regarding the info-packed Karen Dick interview, I'd like to say I agree with her regarding Gene Roddenberry's Rules for Starships, listed here:

http://www.trekplace.com/article15.html

It seems clear these arbitrary and unnecessary rules were made to delegitimize FJ's Technical Manual.

I prefer the FJ concept of each nacelle as a self-sufficient engine, and you can get home on one, but not as fast, if the other is damaged.
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Old April 21 2013, 01:51 PM   #111
Unicron
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Does anyone recall whether sources like The Making of Star Trek mentioned the concept of needing "paired" nacelles for balance? I don't doubt there's some truth to the view that Roddenberry may have contrived the rules as stab against FJ, but I also keep thinking I'd heard this concept before.
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Old April 21 2013, 02:16 PM   #112
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Unicron wrote: View Post
Does anyone recall whether sources like The Making of Star Trek mentioned the concept of needing "paired" nacelles for balance? I don't doubt there's some truth to the view that Roddenberry may have contrived the rules as stab against FJ, but I also keep thinking I'd heard this concept before.
I don't recall ever reading anything like that in TMoST. In fact I'm pretty sure it's not in there. Those "rules" came out quite sometime later.
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Old April 21 2013, 02:27 PM   #113
ZapBrannigan
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Unicron wrote: View Post
Does anyone recall whether sources like The Making of Star Trek mentioned the concept of needing "paired" nacelles for balance? I don't doubt there's some truth to the view that Roddenberry may have contrived the rules as stab against FJ, but I also keep thinking I'd heard this concept before.
FJ devoured TMOST as his handiest source of research. If it was in there, he of all people would have known it.
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Old April 21 2013, 02:28 PM   #114
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Unicron wrote: View Post
Does anyone recall whether sources like The Making of Star Trek mentioned the concept of needing "paired" nacelles for balance? I don't doubt there's some truth to the view that Roddenberry may have contrived the rules as stab against FJ, but I also keep thinking I'd heard this concept before.
All that crap came in the 90s from Okuda et al...
Up to that point there were hundreds of starship classes with 1, 3, or even more nacelles scattered throughout fandom, including previously-Licensed publishers like FASA... And let's not forget SFB...

The fact that the USS Columbia, Revere, and Entente are all mentioned early in ST-TMP at Epsilon 9, alone, justifies not only their existence but their existence as odd-numbered nacelle ships! As always: IMHO!

TPTB literally are The Powers That Be and they can do whatever the hell they want to with the Trek Universe, and fans must fall to their knees and accept it... Don't believe me? Watch this Trek film that came out in 2009...
It's ALL Gone Now!

They might've gained many new young fans, but they've Lost a number of Old fans!
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Old April 21 2013, 02:51 PM   #115
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
TPTB literally are The Powers That Be and they can do whatever the hell they want to with the Trek Universe, and fans must fall to their knees and accept it... Don't believe me? Watch this Trek film that came out in 2009...
It's ALL Gone Now!
No it's not. My DVDs are all still there, as are my hundreds of novels and books. They're still putting out new TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager novels, one per month. New fanfiction and even fan films are being made based on the old continuity. The novel Department of Temportal Investigations: Watching the Clock goes into detail about how both Trek timelines coexist.
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Old April 21 2013, 03:28 PM   #116
Forbin
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post

Funny, I didn't see the ball and socket phasers in any of Matt Jefferies drawings...
Image. They are very widely spaced, however.
Sorry, I just don't see it.
There's an arrow pointing RIGHT at it.
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Old April 21 2013, 03:32 PM   #117
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

I always figured this shot from "Arena" was meant to be those higher-up, wider-spaced phaser banks firing:
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Old April 21 2013, 03:36 PM   #118
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Forbin wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
Image. They are very widely spaced, however.
Sorry, I just don't see it.
There's an arrow pointing RIGHT at it.
You must have better eyes than me... All I see is the 3-view exteriors...with "main phaser" pointing to an oversized black lumpy dot... I don't know how you can make a "ball and socket" out of that...
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Old April 21 2013, 03:41 PM   #119
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
TPTB literally are The Powers That Be and they can do whatever the hell they want to with the Trek Universe, and fans must fall to their knees and accept it... Don't believe me? Watch this Trek film that came out in 2009...
It's ALL Gone Now!
No it's not. My DVDs are all still there, as are my hundreds of novels and books. They're still putting out new TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager novels, one per month. New fanfiction and even fan films are being made based on the old continuity. The novel Department of Temportal Investigations: Watching the Clock goes into detail about how both Trek timelines coexist.
I read it... It's technobabble bunk of the highest order...
"Forgotten History" is just as bad, if not more so...
I also love how the author quotes all these science books at the end to lend credibility to it all, too!
I know a snowjob when I see a snowjob...
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Old April 21 2013, 03:50 PM   #120
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
I read it... It's technobabble bunk of the highest order...
"Forgotten History" is just as bad, if not more so...
I also love how the author quotes all these science books at the end to lend credibility to it all, too!
I know a snowjob when I see a snowjob...
You might want to read THIS to get a vague idea how much research and effort went into that "technobabble bunk." I'd think you of all people would appreciate an author doing his research - but it seems that unless they reach the exact same conclusions you do, it's all for naught
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