RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,092
Posts: 5,399,386
Members: 24,736
Currently online: 523
Newest member: Jamestown

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

New DS9 eBook To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Trek Ice Cube Maker and Shot Glasses
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

City on the Edge of Forever #3 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

TV Alert: Shatner TNG Documentary
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Forbes Cast In Powers
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 20 2013, 09:13 PM   #76
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Your own personal continuity

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Mysterion, my so-called knowledge of Vulcans comes from reading countless novels and zine stories over the course of decades... Full Vulcans are in full control of their emotions (barring any kind of neurological disorder or what Sarek had in his final years), and this starts after the age of 7 (If they survive the Kas-wan ordeal, following this they are normally bonded)... My conception of Vulcans differs drastically from the way they are portrayed on E and in ST XI... All the more reason for Saavik's overly emotional displays if she's half Romulan...
If all Vulcans were in full control of their emotions, there'd be no need for Kolinahr.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 09:14 PM   #77
EliyahuQeoni
Commodore
 
EliyahuQeoni's Avatar
 
Location: Redmond, Oregon, United States of America, North America, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe
View EliyahuQeoni's Twitter Profile
Re: Your own personal continuity

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Mysterion, my so-called knowledge of Vulcans comes from reading countless novels and zine stories over the course of decades... Full Vulcans are in full control of their emotions (barring any kind of neurological disorder or what Sarek had in his final years), and this starts after the age of 7 (If they survive the Kas-wan ordeal, following this they are normally bonded)... My conception of Vulcans differs drastically from the way they are portrayed on E and in ST XI... All the more reason for Saavik's overly emotional displays if she's half Romulan...
So, you're upset because the make-believe stuff in Enterprise and ST XI contradicts the make-believe stuff you read in novels and fanzines? Facinating.
__________________
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy
EliyahuQeoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 09:20 PM   #78
EliyahuQeoni
Commodore
 
EliyahuQeoni's Avatar
 
Location: Redmond, Oregon, United States of America, North America, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe
View EliyahuQeoni's Twitter Profile
Re: Your own personal continuity

BillJ wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Mysterion, my so-called knowledge of Vulcans comes from reading countless novels and zine stories over the course of decades... Full Vulcans are in full control of their emotions (barring any kind of neurological disorder or what Sarek had in his final years), and this starts after the age of 7 (If they survive the Kas-wan ordeal, following this they are normally bonded)... My conception of Vulcans differs drastically from the way they are portrayed on E and in ST XI... All the more reason for Saavik's overly emotional displays if she's half Romulan...
If all Vulcans were in full control of their emotions, there'd be no need for Kolinahr.
Ahh, very good point!
__________________
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy
EliyahuQeoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 09:26 PM   #79
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Your own personal continuity

The Vulcan *ideal* is nonemotionalism. But like humans, Vucans are far from perfect. Look at "Amok Time" - T'Pring and T'Pau both showed plenty of emotion. T'Pau's scorn of Kirk was illogical. T'Pring was a selfish, manipulative cow. Enterprise extrapolated from there.
Even in old novels like "Spock's World" and "Vulcan's Glory", the Vulcans showed emotion.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 10:31 PM   #80
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Your own personal continuity

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Mysterion, my so-called knowledge of Vulcans comes from reading countless novels and zine stories over the course of decades... Full Vulcans are in full control of their emotions (barring any kind of neurological disorder or what Sarek had in his final years), and this starts after the age of 7 (If they survive the Kas-wan ordeal, following this they are normally bonded)... My conception of Vulcans differs drastically from the way they are portrayed on E and in ST XI... All the more reason for Saavik's overly emotional displays if she's half Romulan...
The differences between Vulcans and Romulans are cultural. She can't inherit "emotional displays".
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 10:36 PM   #81
TiberiusMaximus
Fleet Captain
 
TiberiusMaximus's Avatar
 
Location: A ship, a living ship, full of strange alien lifeforms.
Re: Your own personal continuity

  • Vulcans have emotions, dammit. They simply choose not to express them. When a Vulcan says, "Vulcans do not experience Emotion X," he or she is lying. Different Vulcans have differing opinions and abilities when it comes to how emotional they choose to act.
  • Every single thing the Q tell humans about their true nature is intentionally misleading and in many cases an outright lie. The "Continuum" visited by Janeway and crew was nothing more than an illusion, and the Q Civil War was simply another inscrutable Q test/game.
  • Andorians have two genders.
  • The Aenar have become an endangered species by the 24th century, and eventually they die out completely.
  • Romulans are the original species. Vulcans are Augments. The Vulcan/Romulan Schism was a result of differing views on genetic engineering.The logical faction believed enhancing their species was the logical thing to do, while the other faction viewed it as an abomination. This explains the genetic differences between Vulcans and Romulans, including the great strength possessed by Vulcans.
  • Remans look like pale-skinned Romulans with more pronounced ridges. They do not look like ogres.
__________________
"Quite possibly, the five Jem'Hadar could turn Data into a collection of four spasming limbs, one helpless torso, and one head that shouts insults at them like the Black Knight from the Monty Python sketch." -Timo Saloniemi
TiberiusMaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 10:39 PM   #82
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Your own personal continuity

If I look at TOS in a bubble, I always wondered if the Federation was suppose to be a relatively new body?
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 10:45 PM   #83
bbailey861
Admiral
 
bbailey861's Avatar
 
Location: Kingston, ON
Re: Your own personal continuity

King Daniel wrote: View Post
T'Pring was a selfish, manipulative cow.
Yes, but a sexy selfish, manipulative cow who just needed a good spanking.
bbailey861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 10:58 PM   #84
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Your own personal continuity

bbailey861 wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
T'Pring was a selfish, manipulative cow.
Yes, but a sexy selfish, manipulative cow who just needed a good spanking.
Yup.

And I volunteer for the task (I'm always willing to take one for the team).
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 11:03 PM   #85
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Your own personal continuity

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Damn I forgot about that one. I hated what ENT did with the Orions, they were far more believable as slaves/animal women, beautiful, intoxicating and deadly. This way the Orion males weren't wusses.
I disagree; I like that one. It make more sense that they were the ones in charge to begin with (also, not every society has to be patriarchal.) It also makes what we've seen with the poor unfortunate Gaila a lot of sense (in that she was able to be in Starfleet) and it also makes the concept of the Orion slave girl palatable for a modern audience (as well as less sexist.)
Well, I Hated it... It sounds like a kind of retro-women's lib attempt by the PC crowd!
They just turned the concept on it's head. Nothing particularly "PC" or "retro-women-lib" about it. It's a time honored fiction trope.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2013, 12:05 AM   #86
Bry_Sinclair
Commodore
 
Bry_Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: Along the border of Talarian space
Re: Your own personal continuity

Regarding Orions, they'd be like any other non-UFP species. So long as one had a letter of recommendation from a command-level Starfleet officer and passed the entrance exam then they could attend the Academy--Starfleet wouldn't discriminate due to their cultural stereotype.

There is nothing to say that only females are sold as slaves, males could face just as much abuse and degradation as their womenfolk; whilst female Orions could also hold positions of power. Seeing one Animal Woman in "The Cage" doesn't set the standard for the entire species.

As for Vulcans, they do have emotions but go through intense and rigerous training from childhood in order to identify and deconstruct them, before learning multiple techniques to control and suppress them. Their strive for control isn't done in a day and requires frequent meditation and continuous vigilance in order to maintain their calm exterior.
__________________
Avatar: Captain Susanna Leijten, U.S.S. Silverfin NCC-4470, Border Service Third Cutter Squadron
Manip by: FltCpt. Bossco (STPMA)
Bry_Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2013, 03:56 AM   #87
Lenny Nurdbol
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: New Jersey, with the Jersey Devil...
Re: Your own personal continuity

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Mysterion, my so-called knowledge of Vulcans comes from reading countless novels and zine stories over the course of decades... Full Vulcans are in full control of their emotions (barring any kind of neurological disorder or what Sarek had in his final years), and this starts after the age of 7 (If they survive the Kas-wan ordeal, following this they are normally bonded)... My conception of Vulcans differs drastically from the way they are portrayed on E and in ST XI... All the more reason for Saavik's overly emotional displays if she's half Romulan...
If all Vulcans were in full control of their emotions, there'd be no need for Kolinahr.
Ahh, very good point!
Except you're forgetting a few notes about Kolinahr (which you'd probably reject offhand anyway since they're...In the novelization of ST-TMP and original novels!)... Basically, FEW Vulcans have attempted Kolinahr and even Fewer have mastered the doctrine...
Basically, it's for freaky Vulcan nutcases with mental/emotional problems... Vulcan OCD types...

So that's why you don't see a Million Vulcans every year huddled together at Gol...

"Normal" Vulcans have mastered their emotions and aren't put-ons like the crowds in ST XI...or that screwy T'Pol who chooses to inject herself with a poisonous substance "to experience emotions" and takes up, with all people, Trip Tucker!

And let's remember that Spock's half-human and has to fight those emotions... If he's Half human, you can imagine what a proper Full-blooded Vulcan would be like in comparison...
Lenny Nurdbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2013, 04:09 AM   #88
Lenny Nurdbol
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: New Jersey, with the Jersey Devil...
Re: Your own personal continuity

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post

So, you're upset because the make-believe stuff in Enterprise and ST XI contradicts the make-believe stuff you read in novels and fanzines? Facinating.
No, I'm upset because the make-believe stuff in Enterprise and ST XI contradicts the stuff in TOS, TAS, TNG, DSN, and/or novels and zines...

Those two foremost items are the worst of the lot with more liberties taken than anywhere else in the Trek Universe...
And I can fight to the death with tooth and claw to prove it too, but it just wouldn't be appropriate here in this thread...
And I'm not alone in my opinion...

You see, Star Trek fans how grown weak and malleable over the decades... They've slowly seen and accepted changes in their universe so often that they're used to it... TPTB come along and rip the carpet out from under them by "de-canonizing" FASA, for example, and they accept that... TPTB kill off Spock, 1701, David, 1701-A, Spock's brother...you-name-it...and they accept that without putting up a fight... Finally, they destroy the whole universe/timeline in ST XI, and the dumb tribble-brains SMILE and say WOW! Wasn't That AWESOME!
And they voted it as THE BEST STAR TREK MOVIE OF THE 11 FILMS (Don't believe me? Checkout that INMDB site!)...

At least Star WARS fans put up a little fight when Lucas made Greedo shoot first... They spoke out about it... At least Star WARS fans Demanded that the prequel films follow the Expanded Universe info more or less (less on Bobba Fett, but more on everything else like the frigging name Coruscant, the name Palpatine, etc...FROM THE BOOKS!)... Trek fans got stuck with KRONOS for the Klingon homeworld--not Klinzhai, not Kazh, but out-of-the-bloody-blue KRONOS! Trek fans will sit back and swallow any turd so long as TPTB SAY it's "Canon" or "Official" or channelled through the powdery ashes of the dead Bird...
Lenny Nurdbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2013, 04:18 AM   #89
Dale Sams
Fleet Captain
 
Dale Sams's Avatar
 
Re: Your own personal continuity

*Tribbles actually defeated the Klingons in The Great Tribble Hunt.
Dale Sams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2013, 06:29 PM   #90
EliyahuQeoni
Commodore
 
EliyahuQeoni's Avatar
 
Location: Redmond, Oregon, United States of America, North America, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe
View EliyahuQeoni's Twitter Profile
Re: Your own personal continuity

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post

So, you're upset because the make-believe stuff in Enterprise and ST XI contradicts the make-believe stuff you read in novels and fanzines? Facinating.
No, I'm upset because the make-believe stuff in Enterprise and ST XI contradicts the stuff in TOS, TAS, TNG, DSN, and/or novels and zines...
That's the same thing. You're upset because one set of make-believe stuff contradicts another set if make believe stuff that you like better. The solution is easy, ignore the make-believe stuff you don't like and get over it.
__________________
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy
EliyahuQeoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:02 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.