RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,588
Posts: 5,515,361
Members: 25,158
Currently online: 582
Newest member: Giarc1982

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 20 2013, 09:13 PM   #76
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Your own personal continuity

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Mysterion, my so-called knowledge of Vulcans comes from reading countless novels and zine stories over the course of decades... Full Vulcans are in full control of their emotions (barring any kind of neurological disorder or what Sarek had in his final years), and this starts after the age of 7 (If they survive the Kas-wan ordeal, following this they are normally bonded)... My conception of Vulcans differs drastically from the way they are portrayed on E and in ST XI... All the more reason for Saavik's overly emotional displays if she's half Romulan...
If all Vulcans were in full control of their emotions, there'd be no need for Kolinahr.
__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 09:14 PM   #77
EliyahuQeoni
Commodore
 
EliyahuQeoni's Avatar
 
Location: Redmond, Oregon, United States of America, North America, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe
View EliyahuQeoni's Twitter Profile
Re: Your own personal continuity

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Mysterion, my so-called knowledge of Vulcans comes from reading countless novels and zine stories over the course of decades... Full Vulcans are in full control of their emotions (barring any kind of neurological disorder or what Sarek had in his final years), and this starts after the age of 7 (If they survive the Kas-wan ordeal, following this they are normally bonded)... My conception of Vulcans differs drastically from the way they are portrayed on E and in ST XI... All the more reason for Saavik's overly emotional displays if she's half Romulan...
So, you're upset because the make-believe stuff in Enterprise and ST XI contradicts the make-believe stuff you read in novels and fanzines? Facinating.
__________________
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy
EliyahuQeoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 09:20 PM   #78
EliyahuQeoni
Commodore
 
EliyahuQeoni's Avatar
 
Location: Redmond, Oregon, United States of America, North America, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe
View EliyahuQeoni's Twitter Profile
Re: Your own personal continuity

BillJ wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Mysterion, my so-called knowledge of Vulcans comes from reading countless novels and zine stories over the course of decades... Full Vulcans are in full control of their emotions (barring any kind of neurological disorder or what Sarek had in his final years), and this starts after the age of 7 (If they survive the Kas-wan ordeal, following this they are normally bonded)... My conception of Vulcans differs drastically from the way they are portrayed on E and in ST XI... All the more reason for Saavik's overly emotional displays if she's half Romulan...
If all Vulcans were in full control of their emotions, there'd be no need for Kolinahr.
Ahh, very good point!
__________________
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy
EliyahuQeoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 09:26 PM   #79
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Your own personal continuity

The Vulcan *ideal* is nonemotionalism. But like humans, Vucans are far from perfect. Look at "Amok Time" - T'Pring and T'Pau both showed plenty of emotion. T'Pau's scorn of Kirk was illogical. T'Pring was a selfish, manipulative cow. Enterprise extrapolated from there.
Even in old novels like "Spock's World" and "Vulcan's Glory", the Vulcans showed emotion.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 10:31 PM   #80
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Your own personal continuity

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Mysterion, my so-called knowledge of Vulcans comes from reading countless novels and zine stories over the course of decades... Full Vulcans are in full control of their emotions (barring any kind of neurological disorder or what Sarek had in his final years), and this starts after the age of 7 (If they survive the Kas-wan ordeal, following this they are normally bonded)... My conception of Vulcans differs drastically from the way they are portrayed on E and in ST XI... All the more reason for Saavik's overly emotional displays if she's half Romulan...
The differences between Vulcans and Romulans are cultural. She can't inherit "emotional displays".
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 10:36 PM   #81
TiberiusMaximus
Fleet Captain
 
TiberiusMaximus's Avatar
 
Location: A ship, a living ship, full of strange alien lifeforms.
Re: Your own personal continuity

  • Vulcans have emotions, dammit. They simply choose not to express them. When a Vulcan says, "Vulcans do not experience Emotion X," he or she is lying. Different Vulcans have differing opinions and abilities when it comes to how emotional they choose to act.
  • Every single thing the Q tell humans about their true nature is intentionally misleading and in many cases an outright lie. The "Continuum" visited by Janeway and crew was nothing more than an illusion, and the Q Civil War was simply another inscrutable Q test/game.
  • Andorians have two genders.
  • The Aenar have become an endangered species by the 24th century, and eventually they die out completely.
  • Romulans are the original species. Vulcans are Augments. The Vulcan/Romulan Schism was a result of differing views on genetic engineering.The logical faction believed enhancing their species was the logical thing to do, while the other faction viewed it as an abomination. This explains the genetic differences between Vulcans and Romulans, including the great strength possessed by Vulcans.
  • Remans look like pale-skinned Romulans with more pronounced ridges. They do not look like ogres.
__________________
"Quite possibly, the five Jem'Hadar could turn Data into a collection of four spasming limbs, one helpless torso, and one head that shouts insults at them like the Black Knight from the Monty Python sketch." -Timo Saloniemi
TiberiusMaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 10:39 PM   #82
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Your own personal continuity

If I look at TOS in a bubble, I always wondered if the Federation was suppose to be a relatively new body?
__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 10:45 PM   #83
Bumbles861
Admiral
 
Bumbles861's Avatar
 
Location: bbailey861 in Kingston, ON
Re: Your own personal continuity

King Daniel wrote: View Post
T'Pring was a selfish, manipulative cow.
Yes, but a sexy selfish, manipulative cow who just needed a good spanking.
Bumbles861 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 10:58 PM   #84
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Your own personal continuity

bbailey861 wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
T'Pring was a selfish, manipulative cow.
Yes, but a sexy selfish, manipulative cow who just needed a good spanking.
Yup.

And I volunteer for the task (I'm always willing to take one for the team).
__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 11:03 PM   #85
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Your own personal continuity

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Damn I forgot about that one. I hated what ENT did with the Orions, they were far more believable as slaves/animal women, beautiful, intoxicating and deadly. This way the Orion males weren't wusses.
I disagree; I like that one. It make more sense that they were the ones in charge to begin with (also, not every society has to be patriarchal.) It also makes what we've seen with the poor unfortunate Gaila a lot of sense (in that she was able to be in Starfleet) and it also makes the concept of the Orion slave girl palatable for a modern audience (as well as less sexist.)
Well, I Hated it... It sounds like a kind of retro-women's lib attempt by the PC crowd!
They just turned the concept on it's head. Nothing particularly "PC" or "retro-women-lib" about it. It's a time honored fiction trope.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2013, 12:05 AM   #86
Bry_Sinclair
Commodore
 
Bry_Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: Tactical withdrawl along the Klingon border
Re: Your own personal continuity

Regarding Orions, they'd be like any other non-UFP species. So long as one had a letter of recommendation from a command-level Starfleet officer and passed the entrance exam then they could attend the Academy--Starfleet wouldn't discriminate due to their cultural stereotype.

There is nothing to say that only females are sold as slaves, males could face just as much abuse and degradation as their womenfolk; whilst female Orions could also hold positions of power. Seeing one Animal Woman in "The Cage" doesn't set the standard for the entire species.

As for Vulcans, they do have emotions but go through intense and rigerous training from childhood in order to identify and deconstruct them, before learning multiple techniques to control and suppress them. Their strive for control isn't done in a day and requires frequent meditation and continuous vigilance in order to maintain their calm exterior.
__________________
Avatar: Captain Naya, U.S.S. Renown NCC-1415 [Star Trek: Four Years War]
Manip by: JM1776 (STPMA.net)
Bry_Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2013, 03:56 AM   #87
Lenny Nurdbol
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: New Jersey, with the Jersey Devil...
Re: Your own personal continuity

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Mysterion, my so-called knowledge of Vulcans comes from reading countless novels and zine stories over the course of decades... Full Vulcans are in full control of their emotions (barring any kind of neurological disorder or what Sarek had in his final years), and this starts after the age of 7 (If they survive the Kas-wan ordeal, following this they are normally bonded)... My conception of Vulcans differs drastically from the way they are portrayed on E and in ST XI... All the more reason for Saavik's overly emotional displays if she's half Romulan...
If all Vulcans were in full control of their emotions, there'd be no need for Kolinahr.
Ahh, very good point!
Except you're forgetting a few notes about Kolinahr (which you'd probably reject offhand anyway since they're...In the novelization of ST-TMP and original novels!)... Basically, FEW Vulcans have attempted Kolinahr and even Fewer have mastered the doctrine...
Basically, it's for freaky Vulcan nutcases with mental/emotional problems... Vulcan OCD types...

So that's why you don't see a Million Vulcans every year huddled together at Gol...

"Normal" Vulcans have mastered their emotions and aren't put-ons like the crowds in ST XI...or that screwy T'Pol who chooses to inject herself with a poisonous substance "to experience emotions" and takes up, with all people, Trip Tucker!

And let's remember that Spock's half-human and has to fight those emotions... If he's Half human, you can imagine what a proper Full-blooded Vulcan would be like in comparison...
Lenny Nurdbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2013, 04:09 AM   #88
Lenny Nurdbol
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: New Jersey, with the Jersey Devil...
Re: Your own personal continuity

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post

So, you're upset because the make-believe stuff in Enterprise and ST XI contradicts the make-believe stuff you read in novels and fanzines? Facinating.
No, I'm upset because the make-believe stuff in Enterprise and ST XI contradicts the stuff in TOS, TAS, TNG, DSN, and/or novels and zines...

Those two foremost items are the worst of the lot with more liberties taken than anywhere else in the Trek Universe...
And I can fight to the death with tooth and claw to prove it too, but it just wouldn't be appropriate here in this thread...
And I'm not alone in my opinion...

You see, Star Trek fans how grown weak and malleable over the decades... They've slowly seen and accepted changes in their universe so often that they're used to it... TPTB come along and rip the carpet out from under them by "de-canonizing" FASA, for example, and they accept that... TPTB kill off Spock, 1701, David, 1701-A, Spock's brother...you-name-it...and they accept that without putting up a fight... Finally, they destroy the whole universe/timeline in ST XI, and the dumb tribble-brains SMILE and say WOW! Wasn't That AWESOME!
And they voted it as THE BEST STAR TREK MOVIE OF THE 11 FILMS (Don't believe me? Checkout that INMDB site!)...

At least Star WARS fans put up a little fight when Lucas made Greedo shoot first... They spoke out about it... At least Star WARS fans Demanded that the prequel films follow the Expanded Universe info more or less (less on Bobba Fett, but more on everything else like the frigging name Coruscant, the name Palpatine, etc...FROM THE BOOKS!)... Trek fans got stuck with KRONOS for the Klingon homeworld--not Klinzhai, not Kazh, but out-of-the-bloody-blue KRONOS! Trek fans will sit back and swallow any turd so long as TPTB SAY it's "Canon" or "Official" or channelled through the powdery ashes of the dead Bird...
Lenny Nurdbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2013, 04:18 AM   #89
Dale Sams
Fleet Captain
 
Dale Sams's Avatar
 
Re: Your own personal continuity

*Tribbles actually defeated the Klingons in The Great Tribble Hunt.
Dale Sams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2013, 06:29 PM   #90
EliyahuQeoni
Commodore
 
EliyahuQeoni's Avatar
 
Location: Redmond, Oregon, United States of America, North America, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe
View EliyahuQeoni's Twitter Profile
Re: Your own personal continuity

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post

So, you're upset because the make-believe stuff in Enterprise and ST XI contradicts the make-believe stuff you read in novels and fanzines? Facinating.
No, I'm upset because the make-believe stuff in Enterprise and ST XI contradicts the stuff in TOS, TAS, TNG, DSN, and/or novels and zines...
That's the same thing. You're upset because one set of make-believe stuff contradicts another set if make believe stuff that you like better. The solution is easy, ignore the make-believe stuff you don't like and get over it.
__________________
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy
EliyahuQeoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:09 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.