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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old April 19 2013, 05:45 AM   #91
trevanian
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Yeah, and again: IMHO!
I'm the minority guy all alone in his own opinion.
Good. Please don't forget that.
Sure as shit, he is not alone in his opinion. And he ain't wrong either.
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Old April 19 2013, 05:46 AM   #92
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

I used to be interested in re-mastering the effects, and it's still kind of interesting, but it would never be the definitive way for me to view star trek. It might be something I would check out, but I would always go back to the original effects.

Fortunately the blu rays contain the Original footage and effects in high definition, which is perfect for me. Seeing all the details(and charming "flaws") in glorious hd is great.
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Old April 19 2013, 05:46 AM   #93
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
When I watch TNG-R to me it looks like a cleaned up print of the show as opposed to the faded and muddy look of the original version. I know there are small fixes in it, but I find they don't scream out to me. To me the changes seem small and unobtrusive. This is in real contrast to TOS-R which leaves me exclaiming WTF!!! over and over and over again.
Sorry, didn't yet see you beat me to the punch in stating the obvious above.
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Old April 19 2013, 01:26 PM   #94
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Neither do they grow up. Thus the spectacular success of J.J. Abrams film.
Why the need to be insulting towards those who simply disagree with you? It's like you have no other argument than "dirty hippies are on your lawn".

I like my HD set-up and I have no problem buying things that I want (though I have to save for them like 99% of people). I own The Original Series season sets on DVD and Blu-ray because I believe that each bring something to the table that I want (and I paid a hell of a lot less for the BRD version).

As far as the Abrams films go, I guess I haven't grown up. Because part of the fun is nostalgia. I go to see a new take on old friends that I grew up with.
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Old April 19 2013, 02:44 PM   #95
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Why the need to be insulting towards those who simply disagree with you?
I dunno. Maybe he's just taking a cue from Shaka Zulu.
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Old April 19 2013, 04:05 PM   #96
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

I know it's been shown in this forum before, but not this thread. Had they done something like this complete CG overhaul to TOS, it would have been quite amazing. IMO if you're gonna make changes, no half measures. Make them big!
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Old April 19 2013, 04:46 PM   #97
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
I know it's been shown in this forum before, but not this thread. Had they done something like this complete CG overhaul to TOS, it would have been quite amazing. IMO if you're gonna make changes, no half measures. Make them big!
That's what I believe about the TOS and TNG re-dos also.
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Old April 19 2013, 05:03 PM   #98
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Jonas Grumby wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Why the need to be insulting towards those who simply disagree with you?
I dunno. Maybe he's just taking a cue from Shaka Zulu.
Who's being insulting? I'm giving a passionate and honest opinion (you know, strictly IMHO) of a film. Yeah, I know, I know, I know: say you Hate something when the Majority state they Love it is a major No-No in places like this. I suppose if we were to bring up "Spock's Brain" and I said that I Loved it while everyone else hated it, that would be Fine--reverse the situation though and one is called a "Troll" or "Flamer" or some such silly pigeonholed word for simply holding a different opinion.

The bottom line is that I have Serious issues with Abrams movie. Serious Issues. Not just with what new crowd TPTB are now apparently aiming the name brand of "Star Trek" at...but more Personal issues, involving life and death...

So just don't take anything I type here Personally. After all, IF I am "insulting" anyone, it is aimed at writers/directors/producers...and I don't think they are on here... One of the obviously unwritten rules of The Trek BBS is that it's perfectly okay to insult someone who isn't online here to defend himself... I understand that the reputation of B&B didn't go down too easily some years ago, either...

And if a writer (say of a particular Star Trek novel) IS online here, Any and Every piece of negative criticism is unwarranted, unjustified, and worthy of a permanent ban... After all, it's easier to Delete one mere know-nothing fan as opposed to someone Blessed by the near-PTB who at least carry some visionary weight with Pocket Books...

[This is why I'm keeping my mouth clamped shut like an Aldebaran shellmouth over "The R**gs of ****" which has got to be The Worst TOS Novel this fan has read in years, and believe me I've read just about all of 'em...]

So Some Things Can Be Dissected And Analyzed (both pluses and minuses) while Other Things Cannot Be.
That philosophy seems kind of hypocritical to me...
Kind of like the different religions: they're Above criticism, regardless of how stupid and idiotic they are, because they're "holy"...and you don't want to insult certain groups of people, lest they start rioting...

But I've babbled my way off-vector here a bit... Comes from drinking and typing at the same time...
It just seems like such a huge waste of time and money to "jazz up" old episodes when they should simply be Preserved as best as possible Without any alterations...

You know, a lot of us grew up dissecting Treknical aspects of TOS episodes... Ever read The Best of Trek? "Star Trek Mysteries--Solved"... Let's take for instance the re-use of matte paintings. The Lithium Cracking Station in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" on Delta Vega was recycled as the surface depot on Tantalus in "Dagger of the Mind" so fans came up with the idea that the cracking station was originally established on this planet but probably later abandoned after the planet ran dry of di/lithium...so, already settled, a penal colony was established there beneath the surface in the vacant mines already carved out... All this was wiped away by TOS-R when the matte painting was removed... There are other examples, many others. The re-use of the Rigel VII fortress from "The Cage" as Flint's residence in "Requiem For Methuselah" had fans speculating (in I believe the planetary summaries in the back of the Intro to Navigation Manual) that Holberg 917G was also "seeded" by the Kalar from Rigel VII, and thus built and identical fortress... THAT'S GONE NOW TOO, thanks to TOS-R...

TOS-R even Unified the phaser beam colors! In TOS, the Enterprise fired red beams in episodes like "The Corbomite Maneuver" and yellow beams in "The Doomsday Machine" and blue beams in most third-season episodes... Treknical fans speculated (dating back to the Star Trek Giant Poster Book, if not earlier) that this was due to different phaser settings/intensity levels... The blow-torch beam in "The Naked Time" was invisible because it was infra-red... What does TOS-R give us? Blue beams everywhere for phasers,--at least for the ship's phasers...

Sucked the fun straight out of being a TOS fan...

It's like frigging Lucas all over again... Who shot first, Han or Greedo?
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Old April 19 2013, 05:14 PM   #99
1001001
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Who's being insulting? I'm giving a passionate and honest opinion (you know, strictly IMHO) of a film.
Well, this is a little insulting, and it refers directly to the fans in several places...

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
You don't know about me because I don't have a Blu-ray player nor a high-definition viewscreen...


And you couldn't pay me to buy remastered-anything.


I've been reading how the different episodes of TNG have been "remastered" with a little high-res here, and a "reconstructed" planet there (watch it in slow motion else you might miss it!). Amazing how fans pay for the same stuff over and over again. Maybe they've got more time and money to waste than I have?


I'm sure they'll have a 3-D release of them, sooner or later (call it Phase 2.0) all and fans'll run out and gobble them up, too. Better yet, put a stupid trading card in each pack with a mystery pink dot or something on one in a million to attribute some "collectors value" to it. They're well-trained to consume and swallow these gimmicks...


You'd think people would have learned from Lucas...
But they don't. Neither do they grow up. Thus the spectacular success of J.J. Abrams film.

Yeah, I am getting too old for this...

As for this...

And if a writer (say of a particular Star Trek novel) IS online here, Any and Every piece of negative criticism is unwarranted, unjustified, and worthy of a permanent ban... After all, it's easier to Delete one mere know-nothing fan as opposed to someone Blessed by the near-PTB who at least carry some visionary weight with Pocket Books...

[This is why I'm keeping my mouth clamped shut like an Aldebaran shellmouth over "The R**gs of ****" which has got to be The Worst TOS Novel this fan has read in years, and believe me I've read just about all of 'em...]
That is hardly keeping your mouth "clamped shut". You are entitled to your opinion of course, but this isn't even relevant to the thread.

It wouldn't hurt to bring it down a notch or two.
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Old April 19 2013, 05:19 PM   #100
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

say you Hate something when the Majority state they Love it is a major No-No in places like this.
Eh, I've been there. No need to take it personally when people disagree with you. Even though it is sometimes annoying.
THAT'S GONE NOW TOO, thanks to TOS-R...
It's not gone! You just press the button on the remote to switch between old and new, or watch the old pre-remaster DVDs or videos. I love the old Best of Treks too (in fact it was a certain somebody's Fandom Star Trek Chronology which pointed me to them in the first place, I've since managed to collect all but #17), IMO nothing has been lost or deleted or invalidated.

But what about what was gained? I'm not a big fan of TOS-R, but some of the new CG backgrounds are beautiful. Maybe it looked that way, maybe it looked this way. Why does one version have to reign supreme over the other?
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Old April 19 2013, 05:48 PM   #101
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
I know it's been shown in this forum before, but not this thread. Had they done something like this complete CG overhaul to TOS, it would have been quite amazing. IMO if you're gonna make changes, no half measures. Make them big!
Thanks very much for linking this--I'd missed it earlier. What a terrific overhaul! I could see this having been the foundation for the JJ Abrams version, but done with larger bridge spacing as seen on movie incarnations.
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Old April 19 2013, 05:51 PM   #102
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Eventually there would have become a point where if they had not remastered TOS into HD, TV stations would have stopped buying them. Maybe not today, maybe not in 5 or 10 years but at one point in the future. So some fans of it today might not like it, but is it not better to preserve it so that future generations can enjoy it.

And they did try(for the most part) to keep the shots similar to what was originl filmed. They could have gone a lor further and there is a certain segment of the fan base says they should havve gone to town with the updated effects same goes for TNG. It might be nice to see something other than Miranda/Excelsior Class ships, or re-use of movie models for freighters.
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Old April 19 2013, 05:55 PM   #103
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
say you Hate something when the Majority state they Love it is a major No-No in places like this.
Eh, I've been there. No need to take it personally when people disagree with you. Even though it is sometimes annoying.
THAT'S GONE NOW TOO, thanks to TOS-R...
It's not gone! You just press the button on the remote to switch between old and new, or watch the old pre-remaster DVDs or videos. I love the old Best of Treks too (in fact it was a certain somebody's Fandom Star Trek Chronology which pointed me to them in the first place, I've since managed to collect all but #17), IMO nothing has been lost or deleted or invalidated.

But what about what was gained? I'm not a big fan of TOS-R, but some of the new CG backgrounds are beautiful. Maybe it looked that way, maybe it looked this way. Why does one version have to reign supreme over the other?
I hope you keep saying that if all the original versions are destroyed and only the "remastereds" remain...

Lucas actually admitted to doing something like this to his original '77 Star Wars film...

It's so easy to destroy and...replace... I think the last Televised TOS episode I saw was TOS-R... Maybe they'll replace the old syndication packages with them...
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Old April 19 2013, 05:56 PM   #104
trevanian
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
say you Hate something when the Majority state they Love it is a major No-No in places like this.
Eh, I've been there. No need to take it personally when people disagree with you. Even though it is sometimes annoying.
THAT'S GONE NOW TOO, thanks to TOS-R...
It's not gone! You just press the button on the remote to switch between old and new, or watch the old pre-remaster DVDs or videos.
The "it's not gone" argument ignores the core of all this -- the issue of tampering. Except for kids' books, the whole interactive choose your own ending of storytelling has largely flopped (and it is a good thing, because who wants a MOBY DICK where Ahab gets a bionic leg and then stuff his old peg down the whale's blowhole?)

Unless your alteration is a legit parody, you are diminishing the original by subjecting it to change that was not intended by the makers.
Say for argument's sake somebody decides Spock shouldn't die at the end of TWOK. Well, you could run the shot of him going through the revolving door in reverse to show him exiting successfully after mixing all the crap, then dub over McCoy saying "it's that green blood of his" from OBSESSION and voila, different movie. You go to Kirk & his kid in his quarters after showing the burial ceremony (a voiceover indicating it is for Peter Preston) and you're done. You've destroyed and distorted all the resonances and what made it work in the first place, and so even if you say the original is still there, you have diminished it.
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Old April 19 2013, 06:05 PM   #105
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Eventually there would have become a point where if they had not remastered TOS into HD, TV stations would have stopped buying them. Maybe not today, maybe not in 5 or 10 years but at one point in the future. So some fans of it today might not like it, but is it not better to preserve it so that future generations can enjoy it.

And they did try(for the most part) to keep the shots similar to what was originl filmed. They could have gone a lor further and there is a certain segment of the fan base says they should havve gone to town with the updated effects same goes for TNG. It might be nice to see something other than Miranda/Excelsior Class ships, or re-use of movie models for freighters.
They already have gone too far...
The Aurora class cruiser from 'The Way to Eden" is GONE...

Fell out of my chair when I saw it!

The NCCs of Constitution class starships were Renumbered... in accordance with a certain person's list derived from an erroneous observation...

When I see these altered details, I get this pain down my left side and I get dizzy; sometimes I nearly puke...

And we have one man to "thank" for interjecting these things...


Yeah, maybe they will colorize and CGI the old Twilight Zone and Outer Limits episodes... And I hope that everyone gets off on them, too!
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