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Old April 18 2013, 05:17 PM   #31
Lynx
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

teacake wrote: View Post
People keep forcing me to post this.

The 11nth episode of the FIRST SEASON!

Was he stoned?

Where is the emotion? If my lover turned out to be a freaking SPY and another entire SPECIES and my entire love affair a FARCE I would be, like, visibly UNNERVED.



If I was writing for this show there is no way I would give this guy dramatic and character building scenes after this crap. This incredibly hilarious crap.
I see nothing wrong in his acting here. Chakotay is obviously supposed to be shocked and surprised that someone he trusted, respected and maybe loved could betray him and this is simply his reaction. OK, I would have yelled and screamed if I had been in his situation but that's me.

Obviously the producers wanted this scene as it was, otherwise they would have told him to show real anger, like "Hey Robert, you're supposed to be mad of anger. Show it!" They didn't.

Chakotay did show anger and emotion in some scenes. When he discovered that Paris was on Voyager in "Caretaker", when he yelled at Torres for turning the day into a lousy day in "Parallax" and when he knocked out Dalby in "Learning Curve".

As for Seska, I agree with you that she should have remained on the ship. They could have captured her in "Basics#2", kept her in the brig for a while and then there would have been a situation in which they had to release her. Then she could have continued with her scemes.

As for why Seska joined the kazon, well I think that it was her only option after been revealed as the one who tried to give them Federation technology in exchange for protection. Then she used the Kazon-Nistrim as a possibility to take over Voyager herself. I guess that she might have planned to persuade some of the Maquis to join forces with her and then continue to the Alpha Quadrant in the same way as Ransom and his gang did.
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Old April 18 2013, 07:34 PM   #32
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

Lynx wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Beltran did a perfectly mediocre job which (apparently) the writers took note of and wrote for accordingly.
I get the impression that it was the other way around.

The writers did an incredible mediocre job which Beltran got tired of, especially since they totally ignored his ideas for the character.
Beltran reported 2 ideas for the character: one that he be kinda sorta Mayan, and they made him kinda sorta Mayan. The other that he box, and they let him box.

Do you know of others?
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Old April 18 2013, 07:44 PM   #33
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I never understood what she was doing with the Kazon anyway. A single operative (especially a female in a male dominated culture) wouldn't have been able to build a power base in the DQ, neither did the Kazon have technological means to get her back to the AQ (plus they were little more than petty thugs who fought among themselves).
She never meant to stay with the Kazon. Seska is a user, and she was using them as a stepping stone to bigger things. I think she was really deluded enough to think she could capture Voyager.
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Old April 18 2013, 07:52 PM   #34
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I never understood what she was doing with the Kazon anyway. A single operative (especially a female in a male dominated culture) wouldn't have been able to build a power base in the DQ, neither did the Kazon have technological means to get her back to the AQ (plus they were little more than petty thugs who fought among themselves).
She never meant to stay with the Kazon. Seska is a user, and she was using them as a stepping stone to bigger things. I think she was really deluded enough to think she could capture Voyager.
Well she did. So I wouldn't call it much of a delusion. The only thing Basics proved was that both sides were idiots.
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Old April 18 2013, 09:34 PM   #35
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I never understood what she was doing with the Kazon anyway. A single operative (especially a female in a male dominated culture) wouldn't have been able to build a power base in the DQ, neither did the Kazon have technological means to get her back to the AQ (plus they were little more than petty thugs who fought among themselves).
She never meant to stay with the Kazon. Seska is a user, and she was using them as a stepping stone to bigger things. I think she was really deluded enough to think she could capture Voyager.
Well she did. So I wouldn't call it much of a delusion. The only thing Basics proved was that both sides were idiots.
Then what? Was she going to kill all the Kazon onboard and then start taking over the quadrant with only her baby and the EMH for company? Why not simply gas the ship when she was a crewmember a week after "Caretaker", revive the Maquis, leave the Starfleeters behind on a planet somewhere and head for home with her identity still intact?

The whole Seska storyline had no objective other than being a recurring badguy with a personal connection to the crew.
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Old April 18 2013, 10:15 PM   #36
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Third Nacelle wrote: View Post

She never meant to stay with the Kazon. Seska is a user, and she was using them as a stepping stone to bigger things. I think she was really deluded enough to think she could capture Voyager.
Well she did. So I wouldn't call it much of a delusion. The only thing Basics proved was that both sides were idiots.
Then what? Was she going to kill all the Kazon onboard and then start taking over the quadrant with only her baby and the EMH for company? Why not simply gas the ship when she was a crewmember a week after "Caretaker", revive the Maquis, leave the Starfleeters behind on a planet somewhere and head for home with her identity still intact?

The whole Seska storyline had no objective other than being a recurring badguy with a personal connection to the crew.
You're asking me? I'm not a writer on the staff. I can't dispute what you said that they wanted a personal villain. Just saying how it was. I'd have kept Seska around and dropped the Kazon period. Have her get found out as a Cardassian but not betray the crew(or get caught at least). A Cardassian perspective would've been interesting and she could try playing the Maquis and Starfleeters against each other.
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Old April 18 2013, 10:58 PM   #37
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Third Nacelle wrote: View Post

She never meant to stay with the Kazon. Seska is a user, and she was using them as a stepping stone to bigger things. I think she was really deluded enough to think she could capture Voyager.
Well she did. So I wouldn't call it much of a delusion. The only thing Basics proved was that both sides were idiots.
Then what? Was she going to kill all the Kazon onboard and then start taking over the quadrant with only her baby and the EMH for company? Why not simply gas the ship when she was a crewmember a week after "Caretaker", revive the Maquis, leave the Starfleeters behind on a planet somewhere and head for home with her identity still intact?

The whole Seska storyline had no objective other than being a recurring badguy with a personal connection to the crew.
I see Seska as The Man who would be King... or if you prefer, "The Woman who would be Queen."

No one in their "right mind" could seriously think that Voyager would ever get home in their lifetime. Afterall, it was 70,000 light years away!

Janeway set her ship to the task of getting home to Earth, much like Adama did in nuBSG, with one exception. Janeway knew Earth existed, Adama thought it was a pipedream

Seska wanted power in the DQ... the power that a backwards Kazon Nistra could be guided to seize among its contemporaries. A power that an ascendant Kazon could wield even against the Vidians and the Baneans and the Sikarians. From "Maneuvers".

CULLUH: You said the Relora would join us. I should never have listened to you.
SESKA: I was wrong. I'm sorry.
CULLUH: Kazon sects do not help one another.
SESKA: Don't be so sure about that. What did you do to the two men who refused your offer?
CULLUH: I killed them.
SESKA: Yes. And by doing that, you sent a message. The Kazon-Nistrim are powerful again. First Maje Jal Culluh has technology that no other sect possesses. Join with him, or suffer the consequences...

SESKA: I sent the messages in your name.
CULLUH: I am the leader of this sect. You are only a woman.
SESKA: I'm sorry, Culluh.
CULLUH: You'll address me as Maje.
SESKA: Yes. Maje. Please, forgive me.
CULLUH: So, how did the other sects respond to my request?
SESKA: They're on their way to join us.
CULLUH: I could do what no one has done since Jal Sankur united the sects to overthrow the Trabe.
SESKA: Yes, Maje.
CULLUH: I could have hundreds of ships and thousands of soldiers under my command.
SESKA: Yes, Maje.
CULLUH: I could be the most powerful Kazon in the quadrant.
SESKA: Yes, Maje.


Heck...Seska first tried to maneuver Chakotay to seize power from Janeway during the B'Elanna/Joe Carey fight, but was denied by Chak's Star Fleet training & sensibility. She tried to use her "wiles" on him during the State of Flux episode, but realized that he truly was lost to her when he wouldn't even bend his morals to eat the mushroom soup.

CHAKOTAY: You looted the food reserves?
SESKA: Well, if he's not going to give us a decent meal.
CHAKOTAY: I can't believe you did this.
SESKA: Well, it's not like we're hiding anything. I did bring soup straight to the First Officer, didn't I?
CHAKOTAY: Thanks for including me in a criminal conspiracy. Does he know about this yet?
SESKA: Well, the moral crisis ended a few minutes ago, so I'd say ...
NEELIX [OC]: Neelix to Chakotay!
SESKA: That he probably does.
CHAKOTAY: Go ahead, Neelix.
NEELIX [OC]: I'd like to report a crime. Someone has broken into my kitchen and stolen food, taken food out of the mouths of their crew mates.
CHAKOTAY: I know.
NEELIX [OC]: It was that Seska, wasn't it?
CHAKOTAY: I promise you, everyone involved will be disciplined.
NEELIX [OC]: If you'd like my recommendations for punishment, I ...
CHAKOTAY: Thank you. I'll handle that. Chakotay out. Replicator privileges revoked for two days. Everyone, including me.


I actually liked how this villian who once had a personal connection with Voyager kept "coming back". Loved how she tried to "dance" with Chakotay after he destroyed the stolen transporter module on the Kazon ship, in "Maneuvers".

SESKA: You're still the noble one, aren't you? Ready to die for your shipmates. You know, Chakotay, I may not have the transporter anymore, but I've got something better. You. Maybe that's all I really wanted. I've missed you.
CHAKOTAY: You can't possibly believe that you and I could still ...
SESKA: Don't flatter yourself. It was never that good. You might have been an interesting diversion now and then, but I've always been less interested in you than in the information you could provide me with. First you gave me your Maquis secrets, and now I want Voyager's command codes.
CHAKOTAY: If you think I'm going to give you those codes, you don't know me as well as you think you do.
SESKA: Maybe not. But for old time's sake, I'll let you in on a little secret. There are half a dozen ships from other Kazon sects on the way here right now. They're joining us to help take Voyager.
CHAKOTAY: Why are you telling me this?
SESKA: I'm not a monster. I still care about Torres and some of the others. I don't want to see anybody get hurt. I never did.
CHAKOTAY: I'm touched.
SESKA: These Kazon aren't as reasonable as you and I. I'm going to have to use all of my influence to make sure they don't kill you all. But you've got to give me something to work with.

Chakotay may be a "proud man" who was embarrassed by how easily he was duped by Seska... but once he realizes what she craves (power), he knows no one will be allowed to stand in her way!


CULLUH: (Punches Chakotay as he's tied to a chair) Now, give me the command codes.
CHAKOTAY: I'll give you something better.
CULLUH: What?
CHAKOTAY: First hand information.
CULLUH: Go ahead.
CHAKOTAY: When Seska's through with you, she's going to kill you.

Poor Culluh... even after this personal instruction from Chakotay, he never really did understand the woman he was sleeping with.

From "Alliances."

CULLUH: You're not suggesting we go to this conference? That we come running like a Calogan dog when the Federations call?
SESKA: Could you risk being the only Maje who doesn't attend? Of course you'll go, and listen. Nothing should be negotiated there, not at the point of a Federation weapon. But you can learn a great deal. Assess the mood of the other Majes, find out the strength of the Trabe convoy.
CULLUH: You may be right.
SESKA: You can come out of this a hero. You can use this conference to unite the factions, eradicate the Trabe once and for all, and take Voyager as a trophy.

She needs the power of Voyager to make her dreams come true, and she knows how to get it.

At the start of "Basics I"

SESKA [on viewscreen]: Chakotay, they're going to take your son. When Culluh saw the baby... I hear them coming. I don't have much time. When he saw the baby wasn't his. Please Chakotay, help us. Not for me, for your son.


And at the end of "Basics I".

SESKA: Hello, everyone. What do you think of your son, Chakotay? He has your eyes, don't you think? Thank goodness he doesn't look too human. You all have such weak foreheads.
CHAKOTAY: May he grow up never knowing the contempt his father has for his mother.
CULLUH: I think I can assure you of that, Commander. I intend to take him for my own son. A man who would violate a woman under his own command ...
CHAKOTAY: What?
CULLUH: ...doesn't deserve a son.
CHAKOTAY: Is that what she told you?
CULLUH: The boy will be trained as a Nistrim askara. Already he has helped us win the greatest battle in our history.

I've always been fascinated by Seska at this point. She has managed to maneuver Culluh to not only follow her plan to capture Voyager, but even more unlikely, she's convinced him to ADOPT Chakotay's son! She's made herself invaluable as a tactician, and given him an alien heir.

Seska was a gem, whether she was dissing Janeway, torturing Chakotay, fooling Culluh, sparring with the EMH. I was both sad to see her go and happy that she did because she belonged in Voyager's past.

Janeway and her crew were busy making their way towards their future... and Earth. Now only 69,000 light years away after "Basics II".
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Old April 19 2013, 03:46 AM   #38
R. Star
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

I was always disappointed they took the easy way out with Chakotay's kid by just handwaving it away... oh it's Culluh's nevermind!
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Old April 19 2013, 05:10 AM   #39
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

Lynx wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
People keep forcing me to post this.

The 11nth episode of the FIRST SEASON!

Was he stoned?

Where is the emotion? If my lover turned out to be a freaking SPY and another entire SPECIES and my entire love affair a FARCE I would be, like, visibly UNNERVED.



If I was writing for this show there is no way I would give this guy dramatic and character building scenes after this crap. This incredibly hilarious crap.
I see nothing wrong in his acting here. Chakotay is obviously supposed to be shocked and surprised that someone he trusted, respected and maybe loved could betray him and this is simply his reaction. OK, I would have yelled and screamed if I had been in his situation but that's me.

Obviously the producers wanted this scene as it was, otherwise they would have told him to show real anger, like "Hey Robert, you're supposed to be mad of anger. Show it!" They didn't.

Chakotay did show anger and emotion in some scenes. When he discovered that Paris was on Voyager in "Caretaker", when he yelled at Torres for turning the day into a lousy day in "Parallax" and when he knocked out Dalby in "Learning Curve".

As for Seska, I agree with you that she should have remained on the ship. They could have captured her in "Basics#2", kept her in the brig for a while and then there would have been a situation in which they had to release her. Then she could have continued with her scemes.

As for why Seska joined the kazon, well I think that it was her only option after been revealed as the one who tried to give them Federation technology in exchange for protection. Then she used the Kazon-Nistrim as a possibility to take over Voyager herself. I guess that she might have planned to persuade some of the Maquis to join forces with her and then continue to the Alpha Quadrant in the same way as Ransom and his gang did.
Lets here from the man himself. Oh Chakotay. Such hate. Even Beltran admits he had a lot of days off during VOY
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Old April 19 2013, 08:36 AM   #40
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

R. Star wrote: View Post
I was always disappointed they took the easy way out with Chakotay's kid by just handwaving it away... oh it's Culluh's nevermind!
And poor Seska.. "my kid is gonna have hair like shit! my kid is gonna be a moron!"
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Old April 19 2013, 09:38 AM   #41
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

I loved Martha Hackett's work with Star Trek after first seeing her in a DS9 episode, so was pleased to see her in what might be a semi-regular job on Voyager. I wasn't too thrilled with the Cardassian turn and Kazon affiliation, but I liked Seska the character. She still could have been an untrustworthy Maquis who later dies either redeeming herself (ala Lon Suder), or having to be killed by a score-settling Chakotay for being such a bad-ass evil bitch.
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Old April 19 2013, 10:02 AM   #42
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

I much prefer people who can't be stuffed redeeming themselves. I would have LOVED to see Seska return some seasons later. She should not have died. We should know she is still out there in the Trekverse.
or having to be killed by a score-settling Chakotay for being such a bad-ass evil bitch.
This would never happen.
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Old April 19 2013, 10:28 AM   #43
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

teacake wrote: View Post
I much prefer people who can't be stuffed redeeming themselves. I would have LOVED to see Seska return some seasons later. She should not have died. We should know she is still out there in the Trekverse.
or having to be killed by a score-settling Chakotay for being such a bad-ass evil bitch.
This would never happen.
Though, there might be a Mr & Mrs Smith moment
Seven: I have reviewed Voyager's early logs, who is this Seska?
Chuckles: She was a girl I dated, she turned out to be a Cardasian spy.
Seven: Do you have a genetic sample of her?
Chuckles: No Seven, you're not going to get the Borg to hunt her down and assimilate her.
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Old April 19 2013, 10:45 AM   #44
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

Whoa. Your new partner assimilates all knowledge of your past partners via assimilating your past partners..
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Old April 19 2013, 11:02 AM   #45
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Re: Best female Star Trek Cast?

teacake wrote: View Post
Whoa. Your new partner assimilates all knowledge of your past partners via assimilating your past partners..
Seriously, guys get paranoid enough about their SOs getting too much info about their pasts. Who'd date one who could just jack your brain any time she wants and you'd never know it.
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