RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,952
Posts: 5,479,843
Members: 25,057
Currently online: 499
Newest member: Ghost_of_Bubba

TrekToday headlines

USS Enterprise Press-Out And Build Manual
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

New QMx USS Reliant Model
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Star Trek Thirty-Five Years On 35MM: A Retrospective
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Trek Shirt And Hoodie
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

A Klingon Christmas Carol’s Last Season
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

Attack Wing Wave 10 Expansion Pack
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 18 2013, 08:37 PM   #151
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Hmm. I almost immediately ran into this when I was working on FARSCAPE and THE 4400, but I guess those were post-TNG . . . . .

I admit that when I was a kid I didn't particularly worry about whether the Dark Shadows or Get Smart novels were canon or not!
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 18 2013, 09:30 PM   #152
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

The word "canon" meant nothing to me back then. I did care about continuity; although I initially crammed every tie-in I had into my Trek timeline, I eventually realized that some of them had continuity problems or just weren't very good, and started picking and choosing which stories I counted as "real" and which ones I didn't. But I always thought of it as my own decision to make, based on my own judgment, and although I don't know for sure, I assume other fans at the time approached it the same way.

What I think the '89 Roddenberry memo and the Arnold approach to canon created was the perception in fandom that continuity was not something the individual decided on for oneself, but something that was imposed on them by a higher authority. I see so many people worrying about whether something is canon or not, acting as though someone had to give them permission to like a story. Even though the Roddenberry/Arnold approach stopped applying over two decades ago, there are still so many fans out there who assume it's still binding.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19 2013, 12:00 AM   #153
diankra
Commodore
 
Location: UK
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Christopher wrote: View Post
The word "canon" meant nothing to me back then. I did care about continuity.
Which is roughly how I came to it, through Doctor Who - the difference between continuity and canon came through finding out why some books said the Cybermen came from Mondas, and some from Telos, and how the Doctor had met Ian and Barbara (and Jo, come to that) in two different ways, and eventually learning that it was because the TV series was canon, and the novelisations sometimes changed it (because the previous story hadn't been done yet, and at the time they never expected it would be).

As a side note, an interesting example comes from the novelisations (one per season) of Howard's Way, a 1980s BBC Dallas-style drama starring Maurice 'Lytton' Colbourne about back-stabbing businessman in the yachting world (hence nicknamed 'Soap and Water').
The novelisation for season four (or about then), written like the earlier ones by the series's script editor, had to open with an introductory note along the lines of "You may recall that in the previous three books, I've mentioned that Charles Frere was an orphan and a self-made millionaire, and may therefore find the sudden appearance of his very rich father a bit puzzling. Well, that was what we assumed while we were writing the previous seasons, so I included it in the books, but we never mentioned it onscreen, and we've changed our mind, so live with it: it's what's on telly that counts".
__________________
"Some days are better than others. They say that where I come from."
"Loudly, I imagine, on the day you left."
(Blake's 7 - Rumours of Death)

Last edited by diankra; April 19 2013 at 12:13 AM.
diankra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19 2013, 12:34 AM   #154
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

SicOne wrote: View Post
For some reason I thought he still helped out with Trek conventions or had some modern-day function within Trekdom at large.
He does. He acts as a liaison between many Star Trek actors and the convention organisers, and freelances as a consultant for numerous tie-in licensees.

This, I guess, leads me to another question...who was it that took over the Trek reins when Roddenberry died?
Rick Berman. I recall some corners of fandom actually being angry/shocked that Majel Barrett did not inherit GR's consultancy role.

Was it some Paramount appointee who had no affinity for Trek and therefore had no need for Arnold?
Guy Vardaman, Data's hand model, and a regular extra on TNG for all seven years, had been Richard Arnold's assistant for some time before 1991 and he continued on doing some of the Star Trek Archivist activities, solo, for Berman for several years after Arnold - and Susan Sackett - were dismissed. For example, Guy was the credited photo researcher on the GE Fabbri "Star Trek Fact Files".

Paula Block and John Van Citters continued to scutinize the tie-in proposals and final drafts of the comics and novels, plus all tie-in merchandise, for CBS Consumer Products. Prior to GR's death, Richard Arnold represented GR to make the Star Trek Office's opinions known on each of the tie-ins.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19 2013, 01:28 AM   #155
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Richard Arnold was before my time, but Paula Block and John Van Citters are pretty much the gold standard when it comes to dealing with licensors. And they definitely have and had an "affinity for Trek."
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 19 2013, 04:44 AM   #156
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Is Paula Block still with CBS Consumer Products? I think I remember reading something about her no longer being involved with the Trek tie-ins.
__________________
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19 2013, 09:43 PM   #157
Turtletrekker
Vice Admiral
 
Turtletrekker's Avatar
 
Location: Tacoma, Washington
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

What's really missing from this thread are actual quotes from some of her novelizations. I have a few, but they are stored in a box at my parent's place. The next time I'm there, I will try to dig up a few. Anyone else have some handy?
__________________
I hate having thoughts on the top of my head. They usually jump off and commit suicide.
Turtletrekker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 04:18 AM   #158
iarann
Lieutenant
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
What's really missing from this thread are actual quotes from some of her novelizations. I have a few, but they are stored in a box at my parent's place. The next time I'm there, I will try to dig up a few. Anyone else have some handy?
I can pull up the example I read from Broken Bow I guess. It's a bit hard to find all the quotations since I wasn't taking notes, but I know what scene that one was from so it shouldn't be too difficult.

For the other novels, I haven't read them so I can't help there.
__________________
Benjamin Handelman
iarann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 01:32 PM   #159
Steve Roby
Commodore
 
Steve Roby's Avatar
 
Location: Ottawa, ON Canada
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Old post, but what the heck.

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post

Isn't the story that her dedication of Ghost Ship to someone who served in the Marine Corps was a point of contention between her and Roddenberry?
That's probably face-saving on someone's part; it certainly does effectively place the onus on a supposedly unfair and unreasonable dead man.
Diane Carey spoke in a very animated and emotional way about the USMC thing at a con I attended back around 1988 or '89. She was seriously peeved at Roddenberry about it while he was still alive.
Steve Roby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 08:33 PM   #160
TheAlmanac
Writer
 
TheAlmanac's Avatar
 
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
View TheAlmanac's Twitter Profile
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
It should be noted that this subject is not exclusive to Trek or Who. No matter what the franchise, there's always a percentage of fans who really, really want to know if the books are "canon" or not. Did Arnold's insistence on drawing a public line between canon and non-canon material create or/promote this mentality? I'm not sure. Comic book fans tend to be equally obsessed with having to know which old issues are in "continuity" or not, but that probably has more to do with the way comic book companies tend to periodically reboot and revamp their universes . . . .
This is very true. Don't forget that one of the most famous comic stories of all time, Crisis on Infinite Earths, is all about establishing which stories count and which don't.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, I don't recall Trek fans talking much about the concept of canon before TNG and Arnold came along. I do think it was Roddenberry and Arnold who generated the notion that canon is something defined by what it excludes.
This isn't true at all. Read any volume of The Best of Trek, or the letters columns in just about any issue of DC's ST run from the Eighties, and you'll see plenty of Trek fans concerned about canon then. There was also a thread on here a while back about Usenet, where I used Google Groups to find a random post from 1985 that looked just like a canon post from today, if you switched names like "Meyer" and "Bennett" for "Abrams" and "Orci."

On a personal level, I can't remember a time when thinking about canon and continuity, and what was "real" in different fictional universes, wasn't part of my approach to fandom, regardless of the franchise.

Keep in mind, too, that the use of "canon" in this context originates from a century of Sherlockian fandom. People have been debating this sort of thing for a long time.
__________________
Edgar Governo
SNW 10: "You Are Not in Space"

The History of Things That Never Were
TheAlmanac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 08:41 PM   #161
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

^True, there were arguments over what should count, but then it was understood to be a matter of fan opinion and belief. What Roddenberry and Arnold created was the mentality that what counts and what doesn't is defined by the studio and that their judgments are imposed by the fans -- that the fans are supposed to be submissive to what the studio tells them to believe rather than making their own choices about what to believe. You still see fans today who labor under the delusion that there's some CBS or Paramount employee whose sole function is to declare what bits of Trek they're allowed to like -- who believe that they have to subjugate themselves to someone else's authority. They treat fandom like it's a job where they have to follow orders rather than a form of recreation where they can use their own imaginations. And that's because they falsely believe that the Arnoldian approach to canon, which was only in effect for like 3 years and ended 22 years ago, is still binding to this day.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 11:18 PM   #162
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

"Arnoldian" sounds like a particularly dictatorial race of Trek aliens
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 11:37 PM   #163
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Christopher wrote: View Post
. You still see fans today who labor under the delusion that there's some CBS or Paramount employee whose sole function is to declare what bits of Trek they're allowed to like -- .
Wait, you're telling me that submissions don't have to be stamped in triplicate by the Executive Committee on Canon? After I filed all that paperwork to have my books declared Semi-Canon, Status B? What about my Canon Application fees? Can I get a refund from the Department of Expanded Continuity, New York Branch?
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 11:57 PM   #164
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: 221B BakerStreet
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

TheAlmanac wrote:
This is very true. Don't forget that one of the most famous comic stories of all time, Crisis on Infinite Earths, is all about establishing which stories count and which don't.
I thought it was about wiping the slate clean. It was only afterward that folks began to wonder and worry about which ones counted. So a never ending cycle of continuity fixes began.

Greg Cox wrote:
Wait, you're telling me that submissions don't have to be stamped in triplicate by the Executive Committee on Canon? After I filed all that paperwork to have my books declared Semi-Canon, Status B? What about my Canon Application fees? Can I get a refund from the Department of Expanded Continuity, New York Branch?
You fool! Never ask for Status B!!!!
Nerys Myk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2013, 12:00 AM   #165
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post

Greg Cox wrote:
Wait, you're telling me that submissions don't have to be stamped in triplicate by the Executive Committee on Canon? After I filed all that paperwork to have my books declared Semi-Canon, Status B? What about my Canon Application fees? Can I get a refund from the Department of Expanded Continuity, New York Branch?
You fool! Never ask for Status B!!!!
Yeah, I was pushing my luck there . . . .
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:19 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.