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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old April 18 2013, 11:41 AM   #256
MacLeod
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Voyager has replicators, including Industrial Replicators for Engineering and stuff. They should be able to absorb the raw energy from...virtually anything in space (Suns, Nebulae, random space radiation) to power the Replicators meaning it has just as much a "Healing Factor" as those Living Ships.
That makes perfect sense. Take matter, convert it to energy, replicate whatever. It would seem Voyager should be sustainable forever.

EXCEPT, at the beginning of the series they made a big deal about energy conservation because it was a nice plot device at the time. Any person with half a brain can figure out deuterium is heavy hydrogen and should be readily available or replicable, but they had to use it as a plot device. When the energy shortage wasn't convenient, they didn't even acknowledge it. The problem was consistency.
Exactly, they made a big deal out of things that didn't really make sense.

For example, they said they couldn't make more torpedoes.

Why?

Why couldn't they make more torpedoes? What was stopping them? They could replicate the casings, and they had an anti-matter reactor for the anti-matter in the torpedoes. So why bother saying they couldn't make more?

Other things, they just shouldn't been a bit more careful with. They shouldn't have destroyed and crashed shuttles so often. Nothing wrong with just having them land and some other plot device beyond "crash" keeping them from leaving.

Being on the move so often also constrained them. If they'd been in some region of space that messed up their long-range sensors or their warp drive so they couldn't move fast, then they can flesh out their surroundings better and give more stories about the locals.

Stuff like that.
Isn't this the point, the writers etc.. made a point of drawing the audiances attention to issues like no way to replace the Photon Torpedeo's etc...

And you know a few lines of dialouge would have avoided some of the flak. i.e.

"B'elenna reports that due to materilas we sourced on Helvana II, that she will be able to bring our Photon Torpedeo compliment back upto full strength"

"It was lucky we were carrying an industrial replicator so we are able to carryout extensive repairs."

It was sloppy writting, Now I'm not a professional writer but isn't one of the basic rules to inform your reader/viewer of such things and not just pull something out of the air. i.e. If you show me a gun on a wall and later use it great. If you show that same wall earlier in the film without a gun and suddenly there is a gun on it later in the film when it's needed, where the heck where did that come from. The reverse also holds true if say something can't be done and you do it anyway without informing how, thats poor writing. As I indicated above if you say something can't be done in episode 10 and in episode 70 you inform how you got around your earlier problem that is good writing.

If you have no intention of using a limit you yourself impose, don't impose the limit.
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Old April 18 2013, 05:36 PM   #257
Anwar
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

Exactly, especially when the limiting made no sense in the first place.
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Old April 18 2013, 06:06 PM   #258
R. Star
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

I like the episode the Cloud where Janeway's going psycho about not being able to replicate coffee all while Harry and Tom are drinking holographic wine a few decks down.
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Old April 18 2013, 11:41 PM   #259
MacLeod
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

Well just remember the holodeck had a power system that was incapatable with the rest of the ship, obvioulsy transformers/ power converters are a lost tech. After all I charge my DC powered phone from an AC supply.
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Old April 19 2013, 03:42 AM   #260
R. Star
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Well just remember the holodeck had a power system that was incapatable with the rest of the ship, obvioulsy transformers/ power converters are a lost tech. After all I charge my DC powered phone from an AC supply.
Which is... stupid. We can integrate Borg systems, on DS9 Bajoran/Cardassian/Federation systems all work seamlessly, we can integrate Janeway's future godmode armor and torpedoes... but one part of the ship can't work with another part even when they're built by the same people and the same type of technology?

Which is more likely... that, or they just wanted to pretend they were roughing it while having their safe holodeck episodes to fall back on?
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Old April 19 2013, 03:52 AM   #261
Third Nacelle
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Exactly, especially when the limiting made no sense in the first place.
I thought one of the most hilarious moments of the series was when they went into "grey mode."

They don't have enough deuterium to keep the engines going, so they cut the lights & heat off as if that's going to save energy. Give me a bandaid, my arm's been ripped off.

The energy needed to replicate a cup of coffee or to keep life support on in a crewquarters is probably an infinitesimal fraction of the energy needed for the ship to go half impulse for five seconds.
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Old April 19 2013, 08:13 AM   #262
MacLeod
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

R. Star wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
Well just remember the holodeck had a power system that was incapatable with the rest of the ship, obvioulsy transformers/ power converters are a lost tech. After all I charge my DC powered phone from an AC supply.
Which is... stupid. We can integrate Borg systems, on DS9 Bajoran/Cardassian/Federation systems all work seamlessly, we can integrate Janeway's future godmode armor and torpedoes... but one part of the ship can't work with another part even when they're built by the same people and the same type of technology?

Which is more likely... that, or they just wanted to pretend they were roughing it while having their safe holodeck episodes to fall back on?
Oh I think we all know full well they only put that line in about the holodecks power system because the fans would call them on using an energy intensive system when they were supposed to be roughing it. (I believe TNG's "Booby Trap" details holodeck usegae when you are supposed to be conserving power)
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Old April 19 2013, 08:18 AM   #263
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

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Old April 19 2013, 12:14 PM   #264
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Exactly, especially when the limiting made no sense in the first place.
I thought one of the most hilarious moments of the series was when they went into "grey mode."

They don't have enough deuterium to keep the engines going, so they cut the lights & heat off as if that's going to save energy. Give me a bandaid, my arm's been ripped off.

The energy needed to replicate a cup of coffee or to keep life support on in a crewquarters is probably an infinitesimal fraction of the energy needed for the ship to go half impulse for five seconds.


Unfortunately the strange idea that loss of power for "life support" meant imminent danger to life was just as stupid, while being too tired to be unintentionally funny. The in-universe premise means that either the ship is working and they are all pretty comfortable in day to day life, or the ship is broken and they are all in imminent peril of death. There's no nitwit in-between.

(Just for those who haven't bothered to think about it: Loss of power doesn't use up the oxygen nor build up carbon dioxide levels, meaning room air will sustain life longer than the entire episode, much less the scene. Also, vacuum is an excellent insulator, so freezing will not happen immediately. Overheating might happen quickly, depending upon where the ship is, but this is the one peril that I don't recall ever seeing on Voyager. Probably because sweat is a hassle for the cosmetics crew.)
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Old April 19 2013, 02:02 PM   #265
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

at a guess I'm assuming that they don't use c02 scrubbers, because every replicator on the ship, dozens to hundreds of them placed for convenience can release fresh air into the ship which still makes you wonder what happens to the bad air? And for what doesn't get topped up naturally, the main transporters probably pick up the slack.

The don't clean the ship, and by the middle of season one tng, no one knew what a nanite was.

Cleaning and air supply has to be done magically.

How do they release the neurozine gas?

Whattabout Geordie and Bev trapped in that cargo bay in The Disaster?
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Old April 29 2013, 02:18 PM   #266
Dal Rassak
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

It didn't go wrong, it was all wrong from the start.
The original series has the charm of, well, the original, and introduced some exciting ideas into sci-fi. Next Generation brought the concept back to life and gave it a nice new identity. DS9 developed it further with an entirely new take and took it about as far as it would go.
I wish they'd had the courage to stop the TV series there. But of course, such a cash cow as this franchise is, with so many indiscriminating fans willing to watch and read any dross as long as it's got the "Trek" label on it, of course it wasn't going to be abandoned...

Voyager as a whole (a couple of very watchable episodes notwithstanding) is nothing but a lame re-hash of the concepts of the first two series, and the same goes for Enterprise, which has the dubious distinction of even more indifferent acting. Just about the only characters I enjoy on Voyager are the doctor - he's so deliciously pompous - and Tuvok - the actor has the "Vulcan thing" absolutely nailed to a tree.
Ethan Philips is an excellent actor who is wasted on his role - Neelix is basically Quark without the charm but with extra daftness.
As for Janeway, don't get me started. Couldn't they have found someone who comes across as more of a commanding officer, less of a schoolmarm? And without such a grating nasal voice??
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Old April 29 2013, 10:28 PM   #267
tomswift2002
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

Voyager really started to go bad when Seven joined the ship. And then it's funny how Season 4 ended on a stand-alone episode instead of a two-parter, since it almost seems like from the start of Season 5 on, Voyager was a whole different show that really seemed to lose the character that it had developed in Season's 1, 2 & 3. Whenever I rematch an episode of Voyager I tend to grab the Kes era DVD's rather than the Seven era discs as those are so much more enjoyable.
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Old May 2 2013, 10:35 AM   #268
Lynx
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

^^
I only own the season 1-3 DVD:s.

There are 3-4 episodes I'm not that fond of (see the reviews on the Kes Website for further information) but most of the episodes in seasons 1-3 are great.
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Old May 2 2013, 05:58 PM   #269
Jaro Stun
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
It went wrong when they decided to pair Seven with Chakotay. Until then, it was fine.
THIS!
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Old May 2 2013, 06:26 PM   #270
MrArcas
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

For me Voyager went wrong pretty quickly, with the mixed crew just suddenly getting along and following the Captain when they were all hopelessly lost. If their climax to the first season was mutiny and Janeway spent season two under house arrest and struggled to redeem her name to ALL the crew, that would seem more natural. But they didn't logically follow through on the tensions of the show's initial premise... in fact they went the other way to a degree just stretched plausibility for me.

I never found Janeway's command style to be very admirable, so it just seems absurd that with half the crew predisposed against her that she'd win them over with her gruff, "I'm always right" manner.
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