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Old April 16 2013, 01:51 AM   #31
ElScoob
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Sorry to bump this, but I came across THIS and thought it may be of interest. CaptainLJB seems to be another James Dixon puppet. The fake leaked Trek XII script is the same one posted on the Terok Nor Promenade site - but there are a few interesting things in the thread. His detailed review of JJ Abrams' Star Trek is on page 3, and he also mentions having started writing a book about his life and obsession with Trek. And bashes Mike Okuda. A lot.
Oh my good lord. That is UNQUESTIONABLY James Dixon. The random Capitalization, the insistence that 'Treknical' is a word, the psychotic fixation on Mike Okuda, the complete and utter disconnect from reality. The only thing missing is a sad plea for a 'Trekess' to hook up with him (presumably in hopes of popping out a new generation of Treklets to carry on his holy jihad against all those who would sully the good name of Treknical Fandom).

I've had run ins with that kook going back twenty years and more to the FidoNet Trek echo. I suppose I'm glad to know he's alive and well... But man, I have no reaction to the man but to sadly shake my head and walk away. There but for the grace of God....

--g
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Old April 16 2013, 02:38 AM   #32
SicOne
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

I know I'm going to end up regretting asking this, but...WTF is James Dixon and why is his name spoken of like he was Typhoid Mary?
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Old April 16 2013, 11:23 AM   #33
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

It's summed up nicely in DakotaSmith's OP link. He wrote an amazingly detailed Trek chronology, but was absolutely unable to cope when subsequent Powers That Be chose to disregard many of the assumptions made in the first-generation technical manuals, booklets and unlicenced technical fanzines. He took it all very personally.


One more James Dixon sighting. Look for two posts by JTD near and at the very bottom. In his chronology and rants, he held up the Star Wars Expanded Universe as the ultimate example of a mammoth continuity which built upon the old instead of overwriting/ignoring it. Now JJ Abrams has come along and the SW EU looks likely to be ignored by Star Wars Episode VII...
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Old April 16 2013, 08:57 PM   #34
TowerPower
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

DakotaSmith,
I went over to the Dixon link in your first post above and Google Drive says I don't have access to any of the documents starting with the "Fandom Star Trek Chronology." I got the message you were being sent my request for access.
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Old April 17 2013, 03:51 AM   #35
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

TowerPower wrote: View Post
DakotaSmith,
I went over to the Dixon link in your first post above and Google Drive says I don't have access to any of the documents starting with the "Fandom Star Trek Chronology." I got the message you were being sent my request for access.
I got the same message...
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Old April 17 2013, 02:13 PM   #36
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

Speak ill of the dead.

I can't believe what I'm reading here.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
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Old April 17 2013, 04:10 PM   #37
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

^He's obviously not dead. But I suspect you know that
BillJ wrote: View Post
TowerPower wrote: View Post
DakotaSmith,
I went over to the Dixon link in your first post above and Google Drive says I don't have access to any of the documents starting with the "Fandom Star Trek Chronology." I got the message you were being sent my request for access.
I got the same message...
Here's the latest version of the Chronology: http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/startrek/files/trek17.zip
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Old April 17 2013, 06:42 PM   #38
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

ElScoob wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
Sorry to bump this, but I came across THIS and thought it may be of interest. CaptainLJB seems to be another James Dixon puppet. The fake leaked Trek XII script is the same one posted on the Terok Nor Promenade site - but there are a few interesting things in the thread. His detailed review of JJ Abrams' Star Trek is on page 3, and he also mentions having started writing a book about his life and obsession with Trek. And bashes Mike Okuda. A lot.
Oh my good lord. That is UNQUESTIONABLY James Dixon. The random Capitalization, the insistence that 'Treknical' is a word, the psychotic fixation on Mike Okuda, the complete and utter disconnect from reality. The only thing missing is a sad plea for a 'Trekess' to hook up with him (presumably in hopes of popping out a new generation of Treklets to carry on his holy jihad against all those who would sully the good name of Treknical Fandom).

I've had run ins with that kook going back twenty years and more to the FidoNet Trek echo. I suppose I'm glad to know he's alive and well... But man, I have no reaction to the man but to sadly shake my head and walk away. There but for the grace of God....

--g
Next you'll be saying that "the remote X'Nodi Sector located on the outer fringe of Federation space" is a reference to Dixon...

You guys must smoke some mighty good stuff on here. Or do you get this way after being aged and exposed to E and XI?

Tech Fandom has been around for a Very long time, and many fans of old think and even act and type alike...
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Old April 17 2013, 08:20 PM   #39
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Next you'll be saying that "the remote X'Nodi Sector located on the outer fringe of Federation space" is a reference to Dixon...

You guys must smoke some mighty good stuff on here. Or do you get this way after being aged and exposed to E and XI?

Tech Fandom has been around for a Very long time, and many fans of old think and even act and type alike...
I would think most would of those older fans would understand the real world reasoning behind tech fandom's so-called demise. Other than FJ's manual and blueprints (which are still a big influence on Trek - check out the USS Kelvin and spacedock in the last movie) most of it was unlicenced material - basically fanzines. Fanzines were technically illegal use of Trek's copyrights, although they were tolerated by TPTB because they were harmless and weren't actually making profit. But to use that fan-made stuff in episodes or movies? It was never gonna happen any more than they'd adapt the Kraith stories into a TV series.

And as for why FJ's manuals were ignored by Okuda's - IIRC it's because Okuda was told to ignore them. Apparently Gene Roddenberry and Franz Joseph had a falling out over FJ independently licencing the Technical Manual to make the Star Fleet Battles game, without GR getting a cut.
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Old April 17 2013, 09:23 PM   #40
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Next you'll be saying that "the remote X'Nodi Sector located on the outer fringe of Federation space" is a reference to Dixon...

You guys must smoke some mighty good stuff on here. Or do you get this way after being aged and exposed to E and XI?

Tech Fandom has been around for a Very long time, and many fans of old think and even act and type alike...
I would think most would of those older fans would understand the real world reasoning behind tech fandom's so-called demise. Other than FJ's manual and blueprints (which are still a big influence on Trek - check out the USS Kelvin and spacedock in the last movie) most of it was unlicenced material - basically fanzines. Fanzines were technically illegal use of Trek's copyrights, although they were tolerated by TPTB because they were harmless and weren't actually making profit. But to use that fan-made stuff in episodes or movies? It was never gonna happen any more than they'd adapt the Kraith stories into a TV series.

And as for why FJ's manuals were ignored by Okuda's - IIRC it's because Okuda was told to ignore them. Apparently Gene Roddenberry and Franz Joseph had a falling out over FJ independently licencing the Technical Manual to make the Star Fleet Battles game, without GR getting a cut.
One word: bullshit...
It's about MONEY, plain and simple. Licensing and who gets to use the Star Trek name or not...
Do you hoestly think that if Okuda used an NCC from an old manual which matched a ship name on the show that lawsuits would fly?

It doesn't mean us fans have to follow suit and ignore shitloads of manuals and blueprints we've come to hold dear, just because TPTB say "No-No."

As it's been shown, Okuda et al have gone out of their way, out in a limb in fact, to desecrate Trek publications of the past, licensed and unlicensed. That's not a very friendly gesture to fans who were brought up on these bits of minutia. Are lawsuits really going to start flying if the refitted Enterprise were called Enterprise Class in an episode or movie? Or a U.S.S. Reliant model an Avenger Class rather than Miranda Class?

Don't tell me the show's "official" continuity people are Told to ignore them.
And don't tell me to worship Them simply because they're Entitled.
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Old April 17 2013, 10:03 PM   #41
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
One word: bullshit...
It's about MONEY, plain and simple. Licensing and who gets to use the Star Trek name or not...
Of course it's about money. It has been from day one, as you'll see below.
Do you hoestly think that if Okuda used an NCC from an old manual which matched a ship name on the show that lawsuits would fly?

It doesn't mean us fans have to follow suit and ignore shitloads of manuals and blueprints we've come to hold dear, just because TPTB say "No-No."

As it's been shown, Okuda et al have gone out of their way, out in a limb in fact, to desecrate Trek publications of the past, licensed and unlicensed. That's not a very friendly gesture to fans who were brought up on these bits of minutia. Are lawsuits really going to start flying if the refitted Enterprise were called Enterprise Class in an episode or movie? Or a U.S.S. Reliant model an Avenger Class rather than Miranda Class?
Read this, Franz Joseph's daughter Karen Dick explaining some of the legal issues, and FJ's thoughts on some of the technical fanzines that used elements of his work. It's a fascinating read: http://www.trekplace.com/fj-kdint05.html#q19

Here are some quotes:
Now stay with me here, 'cause this is the most Important Part of this whole interview. If you follow the FJ Timeline through 1975 and 1976, Paramount rejects script after script from GR and others, while FJ's Plans and Manual climb the bestseller lists to astronomical heights. GR's head must have been ready to explode. Then, if you read further, Paramount starts to court FJ as a consultant for the movie but FJ declines any involvement. At that point, Paramount and GR have the same problem. Because of the aborted Lincoln Enterprises deal to publish the Plans and the Tech Manual in 1973, and because Lou Mindling of Paramount allowed FJ to copyright the Manual in his own name in 1975, neither GR nor Paramount owns the rights to FJ's original work (such as the Star Fleet space station, the Dreadnought and other ship designs, the UFP "two faces and starfield" logo, etc.). [The rest of this paragraph is pure speculation, but I don't think I'm too far off the mark.] GR doesn't want to use FJ's designs because he feels he has had little control over their creation and no control over their publication, and he'll be damned if he'll pay royalties to an outsider for stuff spun off from the universe he created. Further, FJ has proven difficult to deal with in other encounters (Planet Earth) and GR doesn't want to go through that again. Paramount desperately wants FJ to be involved with the movie because FJ's work is so enormously popular, but FJ is not being a "team player" and agreeing to be a consultant or a writer on the project. If FJ is not going to be directly involved so they can exploit his name in their publicity, then Paramount doesn't want to pay him royalties, either. After that point, everything in the movies was either designed to directly contradict FJ's work, or to modify designs or concepts first put forward by FJ to make them just different enough that FJ could not claim copyright infringement (especially the UFP logo you mention in Q12 ). In retrospect, knowing what a "control freak" GR was about the series and the movies (as documented in many written accounts), none of this is a surprise to me.

By the mid-1980s, GR was telling his production staff (such as Michael Okuda) that FJ was just a "fan kook" who had drawn the Blueprints and TM on his own, without GR's permission. GR was also denying he had had any contact with FJ at all. And we suddenly got things like "official" publications discussing the ships of Star Fleet and saying that a 3-nacelle design was "unstable," and that the Dreadnought had been dropped from production after one prototype because of its destructive power. Then, just last week I ran across "Roddenberry's Rules of Starship Design"; on the Internet (see http://www.ex- astris-scientia.org/my_ships/design.htm ), which were supposedly told to Andy Probert by Roddenberry himself. Said rules were obviously conceived after the publication of the Tech Manual to completely invalidate all of FJ's original ship designs. Rule 1, "Nacelles must be in pairs," eliminates the Dreadnoughts, Destroyers, and Scouts. Rule 2, "There must be at least 50% line of sight visibility between a pair of nacelles across the hull," eliminates Tugs/Transports hauling cargo containers. Rule 3, "Both warp nacelles must be fully visible from the front," doubly eliminates Dreadnoughts. Nice, huh?

Don't tell me the show's "official" continuity people are Told to ignore them.
But see above, they were! Not very pleasent, but that's the truth of it.
And don't tell me to worship Them simply because they're Entitled.
Of course not. No one's telling anyone what to think. That old stuff comes together as a neat little continuity, just like the 80's novels based on the Spaceflight Chonology. They're fun. But it's fair to say that those running Trek in the TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT era were operating under a different set of assumpions. None are right or wrong, they're just different extrapolations from the source material - the FJ manual based on TOS and TAS alone, Okuda's including TOS, the movies and TNG era stuff too.
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Last edited by King Daniel Into Darkness; April 17 2013 at 10:21 PM.
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Old April 17 2013, 10:10 PM   #42
SicOne
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

^ I don't think anybody worships anybody, except for the exaltedness we on the Trek Tech forum respectfully and willingly show Rick Sternbach and a few select others, mostly for having the willingness to tell us stuff and answer our myriad questions.

And, really...if no one gave a tip o'the hat to Franz Joseph or anyone else putting out licensed or unlicensed manuals and blueprints (like all things, some were great and truly inspired while some were utter dogshit) during post-TOS's Trek series runs, does it really inhibit YOUR enjoyment of the shows and movies?
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Old April 17 2013, 10:14 PM   #43
SicOne
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

Sorry, King Daniel; my comment was directed towards Ensign Lenny Nurdbol...your post popped in while I was typing mine out in response to his.
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Old April 17 2013, 10:22 PM   #44
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

Understood, no probs
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Old April 17 2013, 10:30 PM   #45
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: The Hall of Forgotten Fanac: The James Dixon Collection

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
One word: bullshit...
It's about MONEY, plain and simple. Licensing and who gets to use the Star Trek name or not...
Of course it's about money. It has been from day one, as you'll see below.
Do you hoestly think that if Okuda used an NCC from an old manual which matched a ship name on the show that lawsuits would fly?

It doesn't mean us fans have to follow suit and ignore shitloads of manuals and blueprints we've come to hold dear, just because TPTB say "No-No."

As it's been shown, Okuda et al have gone out of their way, out in a limb in fact, to desecrate Trek publications of the past, licensed and unlicensed. That's not a very friendly gesture to fans who were brought up on these bits of minutia. Are lawsuits really going to start flying if the refitted Enterprise were called Enterprise Class in an episode or movie? Or a U.S.S. Reliant model an Avenger Class rather than Miranda Class?
Read this, Franz Joseph's daughter Karen Dick explaining some of the legal issues, and FJ's thoughts on some of the technical fanzines that used elements of his work. It's a fascinating read: http://www.trekplace.com/fj-kdint05.html#q19

Here are some quotes:
Now stay with me here, 'cause this is the most Important Part of this whole interview. If you follow the FJ Timeline through 1975 and 1976, Paramount rejects script after script from GR and others, while FJ's Plans and Manual climb the bestseller lists to astronomical heights. GR's head must have been ready to explode. Then, if you read further, Paramount starts to court FJ as a consultant for the movie but FJ declines any involvement. At that point, Paramount and GR have the same problem. Because of the aborted Lincoln Enterprises deal to publish the Plans and the Tech Manual in 1973, and because Lou Mindling of Paramount allowed FJ to copyright the Manual in his own name in 1975, neither GR nor Paramount owns the rights to FJ's original work (such as the Star Fleet space station, the Dreadnought and other ship designs, the UFP "two faces and starfield" logo, etc.). [The rest of this paragraph is pure speculation, but I don't think I'm too far off the mark.] GR doesn't want to use FJ's designs because he feels he has had little control over their creation and no control over their publication, and he'll be damned if he'll pay royalties to an outsider for stuff spun off from the universe he created. Further, FJ has proven difficult to deal with in other encounters (Planet Earth) and GR doesn't want to go through that again. Paramount desperately wants FJ to be involved with the movie because FJ's work is so enormously popular, but FJ is not being a "team player" and agreeing to be a consultant or a writer on the project. If FJ is not going to be directly involved so they can exploit his name in their publicity, then Paramount doesn't want to pay him royalties, either. After that point, everything in the movies was either designed to directly contradict FJ's work, or to modify designs or concepts first put forward by FJ to make them just different enough that FJ could not claim copyright infringement (especially the UFP logo you mention in Q12 ). In retrospect, knowing what a "control freak" GR was about the series and the movies (as documented in many written accounts), none of this is a surprise to me.

By the mid-1980s, GR was telling his production staff (such as Michael Okuda) that FJ was just a "fan kook" who had drawn the Blueprints and TM on his own, without GR's permission. GR was also denying he had had any contact with FJ at all. And we suddenly got things like "official" publications discussing the ships of Star Fleet and saying that a 3-nacelle design was "unstable," and that the Dreadnought had been dropped from production after one prototype because of its destructive power. Then, just last week I ran across "Roddenberry's Rules of Starship Design"; on the Internet (see http://www.ex- astris-scientia.org/my_ships/design.htm ), which were supposedly told to Andy Probert by Roddenberry himself. Said rules were obviously conceived after the publication of the Tech Manual to completely invalidate all of FJ's original ship designs. Rule 1, "Nacelles must be in pairs," eliminates the Dreadnoughts, Destroyers, and Scouts. Rule 2, "There must be at least 50% line of sight visibility between a pair of nacelles across the hull," eliminates Tugs/Transports hauling cargo containers. Rule 3, "Both warp nacelles must be fully visible from the front," doubly eliminates Dreadnoughts. Nice, huh?

Don't tell me the show's "official" continuity people are Told to ignore them.
But see above, they were!
And don't tell me to worship Them simply because they're Entitled.
Of course not. No one's telling anyone what to think. That old stuff comes together as a neat little continuity, just like the 80's novels based on the Spaceflight Chonology. They're fun. But it's fair to say that those running Trek in the TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT era were operating under a different set of assumpions. None are right or wrong, they're just different extrapolations from the source material - the FJ manual based on TOS and TAS alone, Okuda's including TOS, the movies and TNG era stuff too.
Okay, let me get this straight: James Dixon's a nut. Franz Joseph's a Kook.

This just keeps getting better and better all the time.

Let's continue this with Michael McMaster, Geoffrey Mandel, Todd Guenther, and David John Nielson. Or go one-up to Matt Jeffries, Bjo Trimble, and Alan Dean Foster.

BTW, "Gene's rules" are 100% bullshit, too, nicely coming After the Great Bird's death, nicely being undocumented beyond hearsay. And above all else, nicely coming Decades After the publication of the Star Fleet Technical Manual.
Good try though.

Fans of the Technical Manual, Star Fleet Battles, FASA, and indeed every facet of Tech Fandom in existence prior to Okuda's ascendance would and should be pissed.

Don't remind me that I am wasting my time on here, and why dwell on the past when we have the present? Let's applaud the writers of "Star Trek 2009" for moving Delta Vega from the galactic rim to Vulcan! Or was Vulcan moved From 40 Eridani To the galactic rim?
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