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Old April 15 2013, 01:14 AM   #121
R. Star
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Re: 7 Of 9's Costume?



I just liked this look.
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Old April 15 2013, 03:31 AM   #122
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Re: 7 Of 9's Costume?

Ryva Brall wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
I think it would've been more interesting if they outed Seska as a Cardassian, but she didn't betray them(or get caught) to the Kazon. Dealing with a Cardassian in the open would force a little drama.
I would have loved to see a Cardassian as a regular or recurring character on Voyager. It would have made for a lot of interesting conflict. I just never liked Seska, even before her betrayal. She was horrid.
See that's the thing.. was Chak just too stupid to see that she was a total bitch back when she was using him as her lover to infiltrate the Maquis? It's not like she bothered acting like a nice person as part of her disguise.
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Old April 15 2013, 03:35 AM   #123
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Re: 7 Of 9's Costume?

Yeah, what did he ever see in her, anyway? That was probably the most incomprehensible thing about his character. She seems like the antithesis of absolutely everything he would find attractive.
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Old April 15 2013, 03:39 AM   #124
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Re: 7 Of 9's Costume?

He likes strong women. Now for some people that just means they like strong women but for other people that means they want their balls broken because that's what makes them feel safe. I suspect that is the deal with Chak. The trouble is those people leave you and you have to find new ones. 7 is going to do it for a while but not out of viciousness so it's not going to be quite as good as Seska.
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Old April 15 2013, 10:08 AM   #125
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Re: 7 Of 9's Costume?

See what I really mean by this without being flippant is it seems like this is a component of Chakotay's personality. It is one thing to to say he's being dense or stupid in having Seska as a lover when she's clearly not a nice person but I think that easily done disservice may not be the truth. Really I think he has a submissive personality and gets some kind of emotional payoff with being bossed, ordered and commanded. Everything coming out of Seska's mouth was high handed and putting him in his (in her eyes) place. Everything coming out of Janeway's mouth is ultimately the words of the person in charge of him even if they are having a quiet dinner together. Everything coming out of 7's mouth is, well.. 7. Superior Borg speaking to less perfect man. He is looking for this kind of relationship and he's willing to put up with a not nice person because the payoff whether emotional or sexual is so good. Once Seska's out of the way he transfers his affections to the next woman who will ride his ass (and a thrilling ride it is..)

This is a component of why he handed the Maquis reins over so quickly to Janeway, she was commanding and by giving over his leadership (which was no doubt back seat driven by Seska) he was in his comfort zone. I seriously doubt he would have caved like that if Voyager's captain had been a man.
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Old April 16 2013, 12:14 AM   #126
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Re: 7 Of 9's Costume?

Ryva Brall wrote: View Post
Yeah, what did he ever see in her, anyway? That was probably the most incomprehensible thing about his character. She seems like the antithesis of absolutely everything he would find attractive.

You are confusing the Alpha quadrant Seska with the Delta Quadrant version.

In the AQ she probably was more circumspect because her mission was to infiltrate the maquis, befriend the soldiers (B'Elanna felt Seska was her best friend) and get close to their commander.

In the DQ, Seska tried to "go along" but couldn't suppress those Cardassian genes that told her to TAKE CHARGE enough when she thought Janeway & Chak were making the wrong choices.

I think one of the reasons Chak spurned his lover in the DQ was not only the antifrat rules (which shouldn't apply to them since they already were a couple) but because he didn't like the new Seska.

Remember what B'Elanna said to her when Seska complained at the end of Prime Factors that she could no longer lie about what she'ed done?

TORRES: No! We're not going to cover this up.
SESKA: Are you crazy? We don't have to take the blame for this!
TORRES: But we're going to. We disobeyed orders, gambling that it would pay off. It didn't. And now we just can't pretend that nothing happened.
SESKA: I don't understand. There's no need for this.
TORRES: I'm sorry if you don't get it, Seska, but it has something to do with, er, with being able to live with yourself.
SESKA: That doesn't sound like you. You've changed.
TORRES: If that's true, I take it as a compliment.

One of the interesting problems on this TV show, is that no matter WHAT Janeway does... she will be perceived as a "ball buster" because she does not yield when she thinks she's right.

I don't ever recall someone calling Kirk, or Picard or Sisko ball busters when they did that.

IIRC...

I think they were simply called... "Captain".
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Old April 16 2013, 12:31 AM   #127
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Re: 7 Of 9's Costume?

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
One of the interesting problems on this TV show, is that no matter WHAT Janeway does... she will be perceived as a "ball buster" because she does not yield when she thinks she's right.

I don't ever recall someone calling Kirk, or Picard or Sisko ball busters when they did that.

IIRC...

I think they were simply called... "Captain".
My biggest problem with Janeway, is not that she's unyielding and inflexible when she makes a decision, it's that she's completely random and inconsistent in such decisions. It's hard to take a principled stand seriously when they're so.... flexible.

Janeway in in Phage, "Even though you stole my crewmen's lungs, I'm not going to kill you to get them back because we're evolved past that sort of thing."
Janeway in Tuvix, "I'm going to kill a member of my crew against his will to save two others."

Janeway in Equinox, "I'm going to torture you to get information so I can hunt down your captain and kill him because he is a disgrace to humanity."

Janeway in Alliances, "We must hold true to our values no matter the cost and not dirty our hands by allying with those who don't share our values."
Janeway in Scorpion, "We must ally with our greatest enemy and help them defeat another species they attacked in order to get what we want."

So... ball busting really doesn't enter into that.
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Old April 16 2013, 09:19 AM   #128
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Re: 7 Of 9's Costume?

That's not inconsistent, it's realizing that one solution will not fit all situations. Other Trek captains have doe the same.
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