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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old April 11 2013, 10:56 PM   #16
Ryan8bit
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Professional animators understand the uncanny valley problem and avoid it.
Unless they're Digital Domain. Not that a Trek show would ever be getting the kind of budget necessary to do that though.

For instance, the live action ones generally have terrible acting. No idea why - is there really a shortage of talented out of work actors?
I think there's more to it than just acting. A large part probably has to do with directing as well, in which case a lot of people fancy themselves as directors, but are really just average at it, and not talented like the people who are paid for it in Hollywood. Hell, even people in Hollywood who are paid for it can take talented actors and sometimes make them so wooden.
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Old April 12 2013, 01:40 AM   #17
Temis the Vorta
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

Yeah maybe the shitty acting is just shitty directing.

But if the next series is CGI animated, it's not going to fall in the uncanny valley because that just doesn't work at all. The effect is too creepy and remember, five year old kids need to want to watch it. They'll avoid it by either having the human characters be more cartoony or hey why not a Star Trek series set in the far far future where there are no actual humanoid species left?

Okay that's probably too out there. Cartoony CGI characters/realistic worlds and tech.
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Old April 12 2013, 04:13 AM   #18
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
I would have thought the actors would be the easy part.
It's clear that you've never actually been involved in the entertainment business.
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Old April 12 2013, 04:41 AM   #19
Temis the Vorta
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

Actually I have. It's clear you enjoy talking out your ass.
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Old April 12 2013, 11:43 AM   #20
Shaka Zulu
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
But if the next series is CGI animated, it's not going to fall in the uncanny valley because that just doesn't work at all. The effect is too creepy and remember, five year old kids need to want to watch it.
Who says that five-year old kids have to see it at all? Also, the animation on Star Trek: TAS was based in reality and wasn't 'cartoony', and it was a success-so how do you square that?

As for the so-called 'uncanny valley' look of this cartoon (Aurora), it's a one-man operation using what that one man (Tim Vining) could get his hands on, namely the DAZ Studio program (which I wish more professional animation studios would use instead of the same cartoony look popularized by Pixar, Dreamworks PDI, Blue Sky, and Sony), and working his ass off to get it done with voice acting by his wife Jeanette Vining as Kara Carpenter and also by himself.

It seems that the Japanese are the only ones who can appreciate realistic-looking characters in animation, which is why anime is at the top of the animation world (and growing) while North American animation is stuck in a childish netherworld.

Last edited by Shaka Zulu; April 12 2013 at 12:03 PM.
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Old April 12 2013, 02:33 PM   #21
AviTrek
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
But if the next series is CGI animated, it's not going to fall in the uncanny valley because that just doesn't work at all. The effect is too creepy and remember, five year old kids need to want to watch it.
Who says that five-year old kids have to see it at all? Also, the animation on Star Trek: TAS was based in reality and wasn't 'cartoony', and it was a success-so how do you square that?

As for the so-called 'uncanny valley' look of this cartoon (Aurora), it's a one-man operation using what that one man (Tim Vining) could get his hands on, namely the DAZ Studio program (which I wish more professional animation studios would use instead of the same cartoony look popularized by Pixar, Dreamworks PDI, Blue Sky, and Sony), and working his ass off to get it done with voice acting by his wife Jeanette Vining as Kara Carpenter and also by himself.

It seems that the Japanese are the only ones who can appreciate realistic-looking characters in animation, which is why anime is at the top of the animation world (and growing) while North American animation is stuck in a childish netherworld.
Who says 5 year old will see it? The network that is going to buy the show. In the US the only market for animated shows are adult comedies and shows aimed at children(even if adults watch). Pretending that the US will suddenly adopt Japanese tastes and accept and adult animated drama is just wishful thinking.

And while the TAS may have been based on reality the whole concept of the uncanny valley is that there is a valley in the believability graph just before the image becomes lifelike that it makes it harder for people to accept. TAS is so far from that valley point that it has nothing to do with the discussion. If you don't know what the uncanny valley is, then I don't know why we're even having this debate.
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Old April 12 2013, 03:05 PM   #22
Shaka Zulu
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

AviTrek wrote: View Post
If you don't know what the uncanny valley is, then I don't know why we're even having this debate.
I know what it is (or at least have a grasp of the concept), I just don't give a shit about it that much, nor do I think it should figure into animating a TV show, or into the liking of said TV show by a viewer.
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Old April 12 2013, 04:53 PM   #23
Sindatur
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

Truth be told, I LOVE animation with almost photo-realistic people, such as in the Final Fantasy movie. Yea, it's a bit creepy, but, that enhances my enjoyment of it, that's it's almost there, but, not quite right.

And Final Fantasy is even a bit further than this Aurora is, as it has hair that moves with breezes (maybe this has that too, I just didn't wacth far enough in)

I do like the look of it, though, and will probably check it out more thoroughly over the weekend
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Last edited by Sindatur; April 12 2013 at 05:30 PM. Reason: cleaned up typos
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Old April 12 2013, 05:11 PM   #24
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

I don't think the idea of what "should" factor into people enjoying entertainment is relevant. People respond as they respond.
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Old April 13 2013, 11:49 PM   #25
xortex
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

There are writers who can write Trek and there are excellent writers who simply can't.
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Old April 15 2013, 01:41 AM   #26
Hober Mallow
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

I just hope whoever does the next series -- whether it's live-action or animated -- that he or she has learned from the dwindling audiences of the Berman spinoffs that no one but a few hardcore geeks cares about Captain Arnold Swashbuckle of the Federation starship Exeter, or Commander Adrian Winslow of the timeship U.S.S. Tesseract, or the adventures of the great-grandson of Commander Riker in Starfleet Academy. The next Trek should be Kirk, Spock, a futuristic-looking Enterprise, and some really imaginative storytelling.
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Old April 15 2013, 03:24 PM   #27
Shaka Zulu
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
I don't think the idea of what "should" factor into people enjoying entertainment is relevant. People respond as they respond.
Said people need to get the frack up off of their asses, grow up, and check out other animated series & movies (I`d highly suggest the animation of Satoshi Kon (Perfect Blue, Millennium Actress) or Keiko Nobumoto (Cowboy Bebop) to see what animation can be like beyond cutesy-type animation. Then they won`t be going on about `the uncanny valley` or using it as an excuse for not liking a movie.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I just hope whoever does the next series -- whether it's live-action or animated -- that he or she has learned from the dwindling audiences of the Berman spinoffs that no one but a few hardcore geeks cares about Captain Arnold Swashbuckle of the Federation starship Exeter, or Commander Adrian Winslow of the timeship U.S.S. Tesseract, or the adventures of the great-grandson of Commander Riker in Starfleet Academy. The next Trek should be Kirk, Spock, a futuristic-looking Enterprise, and some really imaginative storytelling.
So, basically put, Star Trek should only be about Kirk & Co. That`s quite rich.

Last edited by Shaka Zulu; April 15 2013 at 05:53 PM. Reason: Spelling correction
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Old April 15 2013, 03:49 PM   #28
scotcat
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I just hope whoever does the next series -- whether it's live-action or animated -- that he or she has learned from the dwindling audiences of the Berman spinoffs that no one but a few hardcore geeks cares about Captain Arnold Swashbuckle of the Federation starship Exeter, or Commander Adrian Winslow of the timeship U.S.S. Tesseract, or the adventures of the great-grandson of Commander Riker in Starfleet Academy. The next Trek should be Kirk, Spock, a futuristic-looking Enterprise, and some really imaginative storytelling.
There is more to Star Trek than Spock, Kirk etc.

As for any potential new series - I just want to see it well done. I don't care if it is animated or live action.
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Old April 16 2013, 03:14 AM   #29
Ryan8bit
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Said people need to get the frack up off of their asses, grow up, and check out other animated series & movies (I`d highly suggest the animation of Satoshi Kon (Perfect Blue, Millennium Actress) or Keiko Nobumoto (Cowboy Bebop) to see what animation can be like beyond cutesy-type animation. Then they won`t be going on about `the uncanny valley` or using it as an excuse for not liking a movie.
Except anime doesn't really classify as the uncanny valley.

Also, film/tv professionals don't use DAZ studios because it's generally shitty.
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Old April 16 2013, 05:15 AM   #30
DCR
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Re: why is there no more talk of a new star trek tv series?

xortex wrote: View Post
Any good space opera will ride Trek's recent success but Trek was a failure on tv and that can't be built on unless you, CBS or Netflix has 75 million dollers to spend on every episode, bacause they - the movies and tv are two different animals.
I really don't see how you can call Trek a "failure" on TV, not with 21 seasons of live action overall, 18 of them consecutive.

TOS was a failure on the networks, but became a massive success in syndication, paving the way for four successor series and a dozen movies (counting the one releasing next month).

TNG was a sufficient success to lead to two spinoffs and a prequel series, and all the Trek series are making money through DVD, streaming, and merchandising.

That doesn't mean that the previous successes would be easy to replicate in the current TV environment, but the history of the franchise should not be considered show-stopper.

Seven hundred episodes is not a sign of failure.
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