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Old April 12 2013, 01:24 AM   #121
Gil T.Azell
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Re: Margaret Thatcher dead at 87

One of our Technical inspectors at work got an E-mail from his Brother in England , saying he was over joyed.
(From what he told me she had cost him his job and such by shutting down mining?), and the No. 1 down load there was
"♫ Ding-Dong, the Witch is dead.♫"
I have no opinion other than a family has lost a mother, grandmother ..
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Old April 12 2013, 09:36 AM   #122
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Re: Margaret Thatcher dead at 87

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
junxon wrote: View Post
meh, could be worse, could have the american system. that looks very dodgy.
The Americans also use FPTP, but the problems with that electoral system are less pronounced there because they only have two major political parties, at least at the federal level. Although the 1992 Presidential election also shows the shortcomings of their system as Ross Perot won almost 20% of the popular vote yet achieved absolutely no electoral college votes.

Starkers wrote: View Post
If you want a government to really change things (be it Conservatvie or Labour or even the Lib Dems) then they need to have the mandate to do so.
I reject the notion that you need single-party majority governments to change things, and I say that as someone who lives in a country that hasn't experienced such a thing in my lifetime. It's a threat perpetuated by large parties in the UK so as not to undermine their power. It requires more work and a willingness to compromise, but those aren't bad things to ask of people who control the destinies of millions of lives. If anything, Thatcher's ability to wreck the economies of whole regions of the UK so long as she maintained support among 42% of voters is the perfect example of the dangers of single-party rule in parliamentary systems.
But what happens when people won't compromise? You end up with the status quo ad infinitum, in particular around any especially contentious issue; abortion, gun control etc.

Haggis and tatties wrote: View Post
I see the media(ITN news on this occasion), have been hounding Scargill in the hopes he goes off on some wild man rant about Thatchers passing or they catch him raising a glass and having a jig over it, and because he has not, he has, accorording to the media, "Gone to ground" as if he were some fugitive on the run, they spent almost 10 mins on this non story.

But all is not lost, they got Scargill's ex wife to say Thatcher was evil and she was glad she was dead, so it all worked out in the end for them.
ah Scargill, one miner who did all right for himself.

Gil T.Azell wrote: View Post
One of our Technical inspectors at work got an E-mail from his Brother in England , saying he was over joyed.
(From what he told me she had cost him his job and such by shutting down mining?), and the No. 1 down load there was
"♫ Ding-Dong, the Witch is dead.♫"
I have no opinion other than a family has lost a mother, grandmother ..
Yes, and in addition I'd argue that the Maggie people hated so much actually died several years ago given the apparent progression of her dementia. By all accounts the woman who died on Monday didn't neccesarily fully know who she was, or who friends/family members were any more.
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Old April 12 2013, 11:46 AM   #123
JoeZhang
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Re: Margaret Thatcher dead at 87

It is immaterial that she is dead. That she suffered is enough. Warren Ellis.

seems to answer that point.
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Old April 12 2013, 12:11 PM   #124
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Re: Margaret Thatcher dead at 87

Classy...
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Old April 12 2013, 01:24 PM   #125
Avon
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Re: Margaret Thatcher dead at 87

thing is she had dementia. the margaret thatcher that everyone hates died some time ago.
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Old April 12 2013, 01:55 PM   #126
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Re: Margaret Thatcher dead at 87

Starkers wrote: View Post
But what happens when people won't compromise? You end up with the status quo ad infinitum, in particular around any especially contentious issue; abortion, gun control etc.
That's the claim, it is not necessarily the reality. It's interesting that you should mention abortion, because progress is finally being made on that issue in Ireland in part because we have a coalition government. The main party of the current government is socially conservative, they'd be happy to sit on their hands and not to legislate for it at all, which was their position prior to the last election. But they're in a coalition with Labour, a party who do want to legislate for it, so there's finally going to be legislation for it.

And if you want a British example, their coalition government is the reason why gay marriage is being legalised there. The Conservatives on their own weren't going to push for it, the majority of their MPs voted against it in parliament. But the Lib Dems wanted it, and Cameron needs their support to remain in power, so he went against the will of his own party and pushed for it.

So, I once again refute your claim that multi-party governments can't get things done on controversial issues.
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Old April 12 2013, 02:38 PM   #127
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Re: Margaret Thatcher dead at 87

Well again to use the current UK government as an example, both Lords reform and streamlining of boundry changes have failed to happen, despite supposed agreement between the parties.

As for gay marriage, Cameron didn't need to push for it, the Lib Dems never made it any kind of make or break issue, and it certainly wasn't in the coalition agreement. I think Cameron genuinely thinks its a step forward, as do a lot of Convervatives (yes a majority voted against it, but the numbers were close to 50/50, and they definitely wouldn't have been like that just a few years ago).

And turning your own example about abortion on its head, if Labour had a decent majority they could just enact the legislation themselves anyway?

So I refute right back at ya
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Old April 12 2013, 04:19 PM   #128
TheGodBen
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Re: Margaret Thatcher dead at 87

Starkers wrote: View Post
And turning your own example about abortion on its head, if Labour had a decent majority they could just enact the legislation themselves anyway?

So I refute right back at ya
I never claimed otherwise. Yes, if Ireland had a majority Labour government then they'd be able to push through whatever reforms they want, but if you knew anything about Irish politics you'd know that there has never been any chance of a Labour majority government here, even if we used FPTP.

My intent was never to claim that single-party governments can't get shit done, because that would be an absurd claim. My intent was to point out that multi-party governments are perfectly capable of bringing about change, even on contentious matters. The idea that you need FPTP in the UK to avoid political paralysis is a lie spread by the Conservatives and many in Labour so that they can maintain their stranglehold over the functions of government.
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Old April 12 2013, 07:34 PM   #129
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Re: Margaret Thatcher dead at 87

Rather disgraceful the amount of glee being shown at the death of any human being.
(And that includes deplorable humans like Gaddaffi and Bin Laden too.)
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Old April 13 2013, 08:15 PM   #130
JoeZhang
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Re: Margaret Thatcher dead at 87

Going off the Thatcher party in London tonight, the funeral is shaping up to be a real disaster.
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Old April 14 2013, 08:57 PM   #131
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Re: Margaret Thatcher dead at 87

flandry84 wrote: View Post
Rather disgraceful the amount of glee being shown at the death of any human being.
(And that includes deplorable humans like Gaddaffi and Bin Laden too.)
Quite frightening isn't it. I don't think I've ever heard such venom, even for people who quite frankly deserve it far more. I think William Hague summed it up, a lot of people just hate her cos they couldn't beat her. She was only really defeated by her own party, and now by old age. Maybe if she hadn't resigned and had lost the '92 election it might have helped, given those people some catharsis?

People are entitled to their opinion, people are even entitled to download ding dong etc, I just hope they allow her funeral to pass unmolested at least. Everyone deserves that; be in Bin Laden, Dubya, Tony Blair, whoever.
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