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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old April 12 2013, 05:30 PM   #91
Guest12
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

I remember liking her "Flashback" and "Endgame" novelizations. But one thing that did stand out to me, that I still remember, from the "Endgame" novelization was in the scene where future-Barclay is introducing Admiral Janeway to his classroom. He says, "...she literally wrote the book on the Borg," and Adm. Janeway thinks something like, No I didn't. Does Barclay not know what "literally" means?

It just seemed odd to put something like that in there.
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Old April 12 2013, 06:04 PM   #92
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

James T. Vader wrote: View Post
Theyve gone to plaid!
Who made that man a gunner?
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Old April 12 2013, 06:07 PM   #93
Marcus Porcius Cato
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

In general, Carey's novels are best in the TOS era. Like some here I just think she didn't think too highly of TNG era onward of Star Trek. Ships of Line was essentially a book long denouncement of Picard.
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Old April 12 2013, 06:21 PM   #94
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Well, the published warp charts in the books have never, ever corresponded to any velocities shown onscreen, which have consistently been portrayed as much faster. So it's utterly useless to rely on those charts as a reference.
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Old April 12 2013, 06:53 PM   #95
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

^ Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. The only series to even remotely hew to those is Voyager, and even then just at the beginning (75 years at roughly 1,000 ly sustainable per year or so). But sometimes all we have to go by is the Trekpedia and not-necessarily-canon supplemental materials, such as the Star Charts book. I meant to give those figures to Mr. Hartzilla as an example.

I find it difficult to believe from a celestial point-of-view that the Ent-E could go all the way from the RNZ to Earth in just over an hour, even at "speed of plot". From a Trek tech point-of-view, the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that as starships have cruise speeds, maximum sustainable speeds, and maximum 12-hour-duration superspeeds, they must therefore have a super-max, 1-hour, she-can't-take-much-more-o'this-Captain super-duper-speed, for those of us fans who demand a Treknology-satisfactory explanation.
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Old April 13 2013, 02:18 PM   #96
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

I remember Phil Farrand in his "Unofficial Nitpicker's Guide..." For both TOS & TNG mentioned how the speeds seemed to vary quite a bit, and he used the example from STV where the E-A went from Earth to the planet and then the center of the galaxy in something like two or three days, but in the TNG era it would take ships something like 8 years or more.
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Old April 13 2013, 10:30 PM   #97
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
I remember Phil Farrand in his "Unofficial Nitpicker's Guide..." For both TOS & TNG mentioned how the speeds seemed to vary quite a bit, and he used the example from STV where the E-A went from Earth to the planet and then the center of the galaxy in something like two or three days, but in the TNG era it would take ships something like 8 years or more.
Thats becuase TNG era engineers aren't as good as Scotty
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Old April 13 2013, 11:06 PM   #98
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
I remember Phil Farrand in his "Unofficial Nitpicker's Guide..." For both TOS & TNG mentioned how the speeds seemed to vary quite a bit, and he used the example from STV where the E-A went from Earth to the planet and then the center of the galaxy in something like two or three days, but in the TNG era it would take ships something like 8 years or more.
Thats becuase TNG era engineers aren't as good as Scotty
So they turned the E-D into a steamship?
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Old April 14 2013, 12:23 AM   #99
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
And there were certainly plans on her part to continue the series. She had discussed them at the time, and they were a unique approach for a Star Trek series.

From memory...

Starfleet assigned another ship to patrol the Belle Terre sector, and that ship carried orders for Nick Keller to return to Earth for reassignment. Keller instead resigns from Starfleet to operate as a privateer in the sector using the Challenger (which he could do, since it was the planet's ship, not Starfleet's ship). The tension in the series would have come from the conflict between Keller and Starfleet.

Thinking in terms of Carey's interests and politics, Keller and his ship would have been the equivalent of the colonial/early Republic militia, while the Starfleet ship would have been the equivalent of the US Army fort overseen by a representative of the far distant government back in Washington.

Of course, none of those plans ever came to fruition.
If that was the plan I have a problem with it as in the last New Earth book the only reason Keller might get a call back to Earth might have something to do with the whole lying about his former captain being exposed to a substance that caused mental degeneration and becuase of that and his reluctance to relieve the man even when he seemed to show signs of going nuts becuase of it almost got everyone killed and his previous ship trashed beyond repair.

So the idea that he gets to do that and then decides to leave Starfleet becuase they want to reassign him (which is better than what I would which would have been to court martial his ass) makes it seem like he's trying to weasel his way out of facing the consequences of his actions, not to mention that fact that keeping the Challenger which sounds is kind of shady since a decent chunk of it is made from the remains of a trashed Starfleet starship kind of makes the guy look like a major asshole.

Not to mention the fact that by hiding it he kept the captain guy from getting treatment which could have prevented the degeneration becuase he lied.
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Old April 14 2013, 02:01 AM   #100
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

TheAlmanac wrote: View Post
I haven't read any of her Voyager work, so I can't speak to how Fire Ship treats the characters.
"Fire Ship" is a Janeway solo story or, rather, Janeway as an underling on an alien ship, stranded far from her Voyager crew over a period of months. It's from the period between the change from the infamous "bun of steel" hairdo to the more casual look that Janeway had in later seasons and, as such, is a nice character arc. The other "Voyager" crewmembers are barely in it.

I found it a real page turner, with some believable, different, alien tech, and a story on a par with the "New Frontier" installment of "The Captain's Table". Very strong stories!
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Old April 14 2013, 04:19 PM   #101
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Christopher wrote: View Post
TheAlmanac wrote: View Post
I was going by how other people had described her later novelisations--if she actually liked the show, wouldn't she have been at least slightly more kind in her adaptations of other episodes? It's not as if the teleplay for "Flashback" is just that much better.
Really, it's generally not a good idea to speculate about another person's motives one way or the other. The only way to actually know is to ask them -- if, that is, they're inclined to answer.
This entire thread is speculation about another person's motives--we're all trying to infer someone's feelings based mostly on textual evidence and an interview with someone else.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
TheAlmanac wrote: View Post
I haven't read any of her Voyager work, so I can't speak to how Fire Ship treats the characters.
"Fire Ship" is a Janeway solo story or, rather, Janeway as an underling on an alien ship, stranded far from her Voyager crew over a period of months. It's from the period between the change from the infamous "bun of steel" hairdo to the more casual look that Janeway had in later seasons and, as such, is a nice character arc. The other "Voyager" crewmembers are barely in it.
To me, that doesn't say much one way or the other about how Carey might feel about Voyager--she didn't so much write a "traditional" Voyager story set during the series as take its main character and transplant her to her own original setting.

I remembered that that novel "explains" the hairstyle change, though, and I do appreciate how that fits into the series. Maybe she was into the show around the third season, but became (extremely) disenchanted?
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Old April 14 2013, 05:41 PM   #102
Christopher
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

TheAlmanac wrote: View Post
This entire thread is speculation about another person's motives--we're all trying to infer someone's feelings based mostly on textual evidence and an interview with someone else.
Yes, and that's why we should take it all with a grain of salt and not get carried away with our conclusions.
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Old April 14 2013, 09:42 PM   #103
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
So the idea that he gets to do that and then decides to leave Starfleet becuase they want to reassign him (which is better than what I would which would have been to court martial his ass) makes it seem like he's trying to weasel his way out of facing the consequences of his actions, not to mention that fact that keeping the Challenger which sounds is kind of shady since a decent chunk of it is made from the remains of a trashed Starfleet starship kind of makes the guy look like a major asshole.
In Carey's defense, we don't know how she would have executed this idea.

On the other hand, Carey's last major creation before Keller, Red Sector's Eric Stiles, was a self-centered asshole.

All I can do is throw my hands up in the air and shrug. We really don't know.
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Old April 14 2013, 09:55 PM   #104
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

I enjoyed her Dominion War books, Sisko calls in a favor from an Admiral whose career he saved by not mentioning that the Admiral messed up a mission, O'Brien going on the Argolis mission and Sisko and Martok worrying about Changeling infiltration.
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Old April 15 2013, 02:48 AM   #105
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post

On the other hand, Carey's last major creation before Keller, Red Sector's Eric Stiles, was a self-centered asshole.
If he belonged to the, apparently, same family as the Stiles that we saw in "Balance Of Terror" and the Captain Stiles from Star Trek III, then Eric Stiles characterization was spot on, since it seems that all the males in the Stiles family are "self-centered".
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