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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old April 12 2013, 01:59 PM   #91
ZapBrannigan
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
That's one of the best ones ever, and really shows what racial equality in an idealized future could be like.
I also shows what every police procedural I ever saw after 1990 looked like. The gruff, no-nonsense chief of detectives, who has to yell at the white stars a lot, is black, almost as reliably as long-tailed tabbies tend to be cats.
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Old April 12 2013, 03:00 PM   #92
not
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

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not wrote: View Post
Hmm, I believe the award was to acknowledge that black men and women were breaking out of stereotypical performances...
I agree with the above. Now explain again how an african-american woman being forced to kiss a white man is breaking out of a stereotype? <-- brilliant use of an emoticon.
Interesting, your lack of understanding is based on what I think is the only clarion response I gave!

In retrospect, it is man’s nature to analyze history with an emphasis on 'perfection' but it is just messy. People desiring the purity of change make compromises that are later deemed ‘just wrong’.

On the face of it “…how an african-american woman being forced to kiss a white man is breaking out of a stereotype?” is such a paradox. Enslavement in the US includes a history of sexual assault against Black women (and likely men too). In my opinion, the forced kiss between Kirk and Uhura was a subtle introduction to the African-American experience.
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Old April 12 2013, 07:36 PM   #93
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

I think that the stronger message of the episode is about disability discrimination, a message that Trek has approached rather limply in recent years. Keenser is treated like a skivvy, because of his comic potential, despite being an officer in NuTrek. Rather ironic.
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Old April 12 2013, 08:26 PM   #94
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I think that the stronger message of the episode is about disability discrimination, a message that Trek has approached rather limply in recent years.
I see what you did there.
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Old April 12 2013, 09:05 PM   #95
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

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Maybe this is too off the subject of the OP but I think a better demenstration of racial equality and breaking of stereotypes in Star Trek is in Court Martial when Commodore Stone was bossing Capt. Kirk around as his clear superior. But maybe that isn't dramatic enough.
You're close enough as one of my points has always been that "Star Trek: TOS" is filled with many examples such as the one you put out there, therefore, why propagandize "the kiss?"
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Old April 12 2013, 11:49 PM   #96
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
You're close enough as one of my points has always been that "Star Trek: TOS" is filled with many examples such as the one you put out there, therefore, why propagandize "the kiss?"
Because at the time, it was one thing to see Stone act as Kirk's superior, or Cosby's I Spy character Alexander Scott be the equal of Culp's Kelly Robinson, but romance of any kind between a man and woman of different racial backgrounds was not going to happen anywhere else, particularly since that was (for many Americans) the "forbidden" relation dating back to the slave era.

Making the kiss the "big, groundbreaking deal" was possible for the reasons posted above, and as long as other series of the period were not going to take that step (ex. The Mod Squad, where the Julie and Linc characters were never written to have romanitc feeling for the other), Star Trek could trumpet their episode forever.

Pretty close to what happened during the syndication years.
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Old April 13 2013, 12:48 AM   #97
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
... but romance of any kind between a man and woman of different racial backgrounds was not going to happen anywhere else, particularly since that was (for many Americans) the "forbidden" relation dating back to the slave era.
Except there simply was no "romance" involved in "the kiss." Both Kirk and Uhura were visibly fighting it. No "free will," no credit.

Also there have always been inter-racial relationships and marriages throughout the US and world history. Sometimes there were problems because of it, sometimes there weren't. Some folks actually didn't care. Then again, even today some can get hard looks.

Making the kiss the "big, groundbreaking deal" was possible for the reasons posted above, and as long as other series of the period were not going to take that step ...
Except by making it a forced kiss "Star Trek" didn't truly break any ground or take that step either. It's a case of "The Emperor's New Clothes" with most everyone standing around applauding the non-existent splendorous dressings of a naked man.
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Old April 13 2013, 01:59 AM   #98
Nerys Myk
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
... but romance of any kind between a man and woman of different racial backgrounds was not going to happen anywhere else, particularly since that was (for many Americans) the "forbidden" relation dating back to the slave era.
Except there simply was no "romance" involved in "the kiss." Both Kirk and Uhura were visibly fighting it. No "free will," no credit.

Also there have always been inter-racial relationships and marriages throughout the US and world history. Sometimes there were problems because of it, sometimes there weren't. Some folks actually didn't care. Then again, even today some can get hard looks.
The time and place of the kiss (the US in the 1960s) is what made it "controversial". While there were interracial marriages and relationships, it was also a time of segregation with things like white only water fountains. So a white man and a black woman kissing under any circumstance could be looked upon with disfavor in many circles.

Making the kiss the "big, groundbreaking deal" was possible for the reasons posted above, and as long as other series of the period were not going to take that step ...
Except by making it a forced kiss "Star Trek" didn't truly break any ground or take that step either. It's a case of "The Emperor's New Clothes" with most everyone standing around applauding the non-existent splendorous dressings of a naked man.
As I said a above, the image of a white man and a black woman kissing, under any circumstances was seen as controversial. Though, I agree the circumstances aren't as groundbreaking as Kirk and Uhura being romantically involved or if one Kirk's love interests have been played by a black actress.
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Old April 13 2013, 08:47 AM   #99
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

But was it actually controversial or was it greeted with indifference? I suspect this might be another case of print the myth.
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Old April 13 2013, 12:16 PM   #100
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Maurice wrote: View Post
But was it actually controversial or was it greeted with indifference? I suspect this might be another case of print the myth.
When "Plato's Stepchildren" first aired, I think Star Trek was on at 10 pm on Friday night. That's a graveyard shift for TV because the desired demographic goes out to movies, parties, bars, etc. Children were in bed and that left older folks, many of whom were already asleep as well.

That, plus the blink-and-you-missed-it kiss duration, and the fact that many viewers who did tune in probably considered it a deeply lousy episode and didn't stick with it that far into the timeslot, and I would bet that The Kiss didn't cause any stir at all in 1968. The nation was reeling from actual events and would hardly be on pins and needles to see what went down on Star Trek -- in a silly, frequently embarrassing episode, no less.

Even today, I notice that none of the shows I give a damn about are shown on Friday night.
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Old April 13 2013, 02:34 PM   #101
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Yeah, way more things in 1968 than a bad Trek episode for folks to get up in the air about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968
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Old April 13 2013, 03:39 PM   #102
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Maurice wrote: View Post
But was it actually controversial or was it greeted with indifference? I suspect this might be another case of print the myth.
That would depend on who you were and where you lived, which is why I said "controversial".
Personally I think it's a bit overblown. Though civil rights and segregation were still an issue in 1968 as the February 8 entry in Gov. Kodos' list shows. Was a show like Star Trek even a blip on the racist radar? Hard to say. But if say, Diahann Carroll had been cast as Elaan or as Helen Noel back in 1966, the blip might have been bigger.
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Old April 13 2013, 03:46 PM   #103
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
But was it actually controversial or was it greeted with indifference? I suspect this might be another case of print the myth.
That would depend on who you were and where you lived, which is why I said "controversial".
Personally I think it's a bit overblown. Though civil rights and segregation were still an issue in 1968 as the February 8 entry in Gov. Kodos' list shows. Was a show like Star Trek even a blip on the racist radar? Hard to say. But if say, Diahann Carroll had been cast as Elaan or as Helen Noel back in 1966, the blip might have been bigger.
Or had Uhura been regularly left in command as senior officer of the deck when Spock and Kirk went planet side there might have been more notice taken.
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Old April 13 2013, 04:56 PM   #104
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
But was it actually controversial or was it greeted with indifference? I suspect this might be another case of print the myth.
That would depend on who you were and where you lived, which is why I said "controversial".
Personally I think it's a bit overblown. Though civil rights and segregation were still an issue in 1968 as the February 8 entry in Gov. Kodos' list shows. Was a show like Star Trek even a blip on the racist radar? Hard to say. But if say, Diahann Carroll had been cast as Elaan or as Helen Noel back in 1966, the blip might have been bigger.
Or had Uhura been regularly left in command as senior officer of the deck when Spock and Kirk went planet side there might have been more notice taken.

More so because Uhura was female and an African-American?
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Old April 13 2013, 05:28 PM   #105
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
Also there have always been inter-racial relationships and marriages throughout the US and world history. Sometimes there were problems because of it, sometimes there weren't. Some folks actually didn't care. Then again, even today some can get hard looks.
Interracial marriage was criminalized in a large number of US states until 1967, when it was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Here's a map showing when each state repealed the laws: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_miscegenation.svg

The fact that the kiss happened in 1968, one year after the ruling, is pretty damn remarkable in my opinion, regardless of if it was forced.
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