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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old April 12 2013, 07:10 PM   #136
DonIago
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

I believe I've made those points before myself. Well-said.

I would think Starfleet must have regulations regarding how long someone's allowed to be considered "missing" before "presumed dead" gets added to the description.
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Old April 12 2013, 07:16 PM   #137
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

SO much pin-head dancing. I'll say it again: If two of your kids were fused into one being and started crowing about his rights...you wouldn't hesitate for one second to pull the plug and get your kids back.
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Old April 12 2013, 07:29 PM   #138
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
SO much pin-head dancing. I'll say it again: If two of your kids were fused into one being and started crowing about his rights...you wouldn't hesitate for one second to pull the plug and get your kids back.
Bullshit.

And since Kes made the tearful plea to Janeway to save her boyfriend, and it worked on Janeway...

I can state categorically that, even though my boyfriend required a transplant to stay alive, it never even for a second crossed my mind to kill someone to get him a kidney.
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Old April 12 2013, 07:34 PM   #139
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

teya wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
SO much pin-head dancing. I'll say it again: If two of your kids were fused into one being and started crowing about his rights...you wouldn't hesitate for one second to pull the plug and get your kids back.
Bullshit.

And since Kes made the tearful plea to Janeway to save her boyfriend, and it worked on Janeway...

I can state categorically that, even though my boyfriend required a transplant to stay alive, it never even for a second crossed my mind to kill someone to get him a kidney.
You obviously have no kids. ..lol..though it did just occur to me if the one were much better behaved than the two "hmmmmm"

And randomly killing some stranger that actually has a life to steal his kidney is about as far as you can get from defusing someone to get your children back.
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Old April 12 2013, 07:36 PM   #140
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
SO much pin-head dancing. I'll say it again: If two of your kids were fused into one being and started crowing about his rights...you wouldn't hesitate for one second to pull the plug and get your kids back.
How nice that you know me so well that you can tell me how I'd handle a situation that I don't even know how I'd handle.
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Old April 12 2013, 07:39 PM   #141
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Not to mention cynical to declare that all humans would pull the plug and murder someone without hesitation. I'd damn well hope no matter the circumstances of "pulling a plug" someone would hesitate.
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Old April 12 2013, 07:42 PM   #142
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

I notice no one here with children has come out and said "Tough titty for my kids".
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Old April 12 2013, 07:47 PM   #143
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

And you think that proves something? No parent's going to say that. That's typically why someone impartial should be making these choices. Not being influenced by someone coming in and crying over their personal stake in the matter.
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Old April 12 2013, 07:47 PM   #144
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

R. Star wrote: View Post
Not to mention cynical to declare that all humans would pull the plug and murder someone without hesitation. I'd damn well hope no matter the circumstances of "pulling a plug" someone would hesitate.
Oh I'm sure some you'd find some zealots who would dance on the pinhead of morality. After all Mormons forbid blood transfusions.
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Old April 12 2013, 07:51 PM   #145
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

So... anyone who disagrees with you is a zealot and you point out a specific group. There's a nice bit of objectivity.

But your scenario about the kids... okay let's have it. Your two kids are merged into one person. That means they have your children's characteristics, memories and love for you. You spend weeks with this kid, he calls you Dad, declares he loves you and it's great and despite your other two kids being gone you begin to bond.

Now you're saying you would, without hesitation, kill that kid who's begging you not to, that he loves you, when the cure is found? That's pretty darn harsh, cold and remorseless.
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Old April 12 2013, 07:54 PM   #146
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
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Janeway didn't kill anyone. She restored Tuvok and Neelix back to normal after a transporter accident.

It was basically the same as when The Doctor restored B'Elanna back to normal after the division of her in "Faces".
According to the poll I took on that subject...

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...nna+died+faces

The group consensus is that B'Elanna died in Faces and was replaced by a transpoprter clone that might as well have been the same woman but wasn't.

It's a close vote. You could totally change the will of the group with one vote.

The power is yours.

But then after Deadlock they're all spacial scission clones except Naomi and Harry, who were the only first class citizens and not freak accidents with dellusions of grandure... Which is when I laughably remind you that Harry was the only real Starfleet officer left and there for the real Captain of Voyager but he was to fricking dim to figure it out.
I see it the other way around. Harry and Naomi were the "spacial scission clones". They came from the cloned ship.

Which is why I suspect that Harry celebrated the homecoming by running in to his parents in their home, bellowing out the ancient Joan Jett song "Cherry Bomb" whose lyrics he altered to:

Hello Mum, Hello Dad, I'm your D-D-D-D-Duplicate Son!!!!

Tip of the day: Listen to the song on Youtube (Joan Jett's solo version or the one she did with The Runaways, it doesn't matter) and sing it the way Harry did! It's fun!
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Old April 12 2013, 07:58 PM   #147
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

R. Star wrote: View Post
So... anyone who disagrees with you is a zealot and you point out a specific group. There's a nice bit of objectivity.

But your scenario about the kids... okay let's have it. Your two kids are merged into one person. That means they have your children's characteristics, memories and love for you. You spend weeks with this kid, he calls you Dad, declares he loves you and it's great and despite your other two kids being gone you begin to bond.

Now you're saying you would, without hesitation, kill that kid who's begging you not to, that he loves you, when the cure is found? That's pretty darn harsh, cold and remorseless.
In my scenario the cure can be found within the day. In your scenario....fine you win, if its just me. But if I'm say divorced and the mom is begging for the two kids back. I would pull the plug.

But again, if it's just a day, I'm pulling the plug.

*The only reason you won at all is because you had the kid begging me. And it sure was stupid of me to let myself get bonded. Bad me!
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Old April 12 2013, 08:00 PM   #148
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Well it's the scenario that Voyager presents. The episode covered a period of weeks. Even Tuvix said if the cure was found a day or so later, he'd probably have gone with it. Could be genuine, could be bs, but hey.
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Old April 12 2013, 08:04 PM   #149
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Not to mention cynical to declare that all humans would pull the plug and murder someone without hesitation. I'd damn well hope no matter the circumstances of "pulling a plug" someone would hesitate.
Oh I'm sure some you'd find some zealots who would dance on the pinhead of morality. After all Mormons forbid blood transfusions.
Mormons do not forbid blood transfusions.

That's Jehovah's Witnesses.
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Old April 12 2013, 08:13 PM   #150
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

I'm still having a hard time getting past the likelihood that "Tuvix" is just delusional transporter psychosis ranting when he declares himself a seperate being with rights.

I guess the only way to solve that would be to determine if Neelix and Tuvok are indeed dead, have their own souls and are in the afterlife.
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