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Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

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Old April 12 2013, 02:43 AM   #46
R. Star
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

Twilight was actually one of ENT's better episodes. T'Pol makes a hawt vampire.

Okay.. that second sentence was a joke.
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Old April 12 2013, 02:50 AM   #47
Use of Time
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

USS Firefly wrote: View Post
Hell the Enterprise that is at port in my hometown looks more advanced than Kirk's Enterprise.
You have a Enterprise in your town?
The nuclear carrier Enterprise is being decomissioned here in Norfolk. I work for the Navy's Facilities Engineering Command. I believe they are doing the nuclear disassembling here before sending it up to Washington to be scrapped.
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Old April 12 2013, 02:52 AM   #48
Ryva Brall
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

Oh, God... I just remembered the gel rubbing.
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Old April 12 2013, 08:45 AM   #49
USS Firefly
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

The nuclear carrier Enterprise is being decomissioned here in Norfolk. I work for the Navy's Facilities Engineering Command. I believe they are doing the nuclear disassembling here before sending it up to Washington to be scrapped.
Wow that's cool, in my town we don't even have a docking port
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Old April 12 2013, 06:08 PM   #50
feek61
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

Definitely give it another chance. Don't listen to those who bitch that it's not good because it's not like DS9 or Voyager or TNG. It's a different show but better than most stuff on TV. Despite what has been written here; the acting is good and there are a large number of good episodes. There are some dogs of course which everyone seems to point out (I will add a few others not normally mentioned: "Extinction" and "Hatchery" both are bad IMO) but if you have an open mind you may really enjoy it.
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Old April 21 2013, 04:32 PM   #51
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

Ryva Brall wrote: View Post
So I've seen every other Trek series (some multiple times) and I watched the first two seasons of Enterprise when it first aired, but then I lost interest. I just couldn't get into it, or force myself to care about any of the characters. But now I'm wondering, now that I'm older, if I might enjoy it more. Could someone give me some compelling reasons why I should give it another go? Does it get better after the second season?
Save your mind and your Soul--DON'T!

The series becomes more and more illogical, improbable, and anti-TOS (aside from a few random "droppings" to TRY to salvage the old TOS fanbase)...

You will see Archer become a superman, able to (almost) leap tall buildings in a single bound...
You will see "serial" episodes of no worth, just random ideas chucked at the screen...which drag on and on from episode to episode...
You will experience the 4th season's Fanboy Scripts which throw all manner of TOSish dropping nonsense at the screen to sucker-in the older generation of fans...
And ultimately you will see the final episode which is arguably The worst ending for Any and Every Trek series Ever (I'm talking Worse than V's Final where the Voyager gets home and--Fade To Black!)...
Above all, you will see continuity with TOS shredded to little pieces, unless you're Very gullible and willing to suspend disbelief indefinitely...

B&B would never admit it but E was a reboot of TOS right from the start... That's why the first season had no "Star Trek" in the title--they didn't want to pay royalties and wanted to strike out on their own; dig their own goldmine, And have their cake and eat it too by luring in innocent, brighteyed Trek fans...

The Xindi storyline was a cheap grap at current events' World Trade Center disaster... With the NX-01 set up as a Vengeance Ship to kill the Evil Doers and their Mad Scientist... Take out all the yapping and FX and that's what it really boils down to...

To me, Trek ended (and not particularly well) with Voyager... E was a sore excuse to milk fans and is easily the Least thought out and planned Trek series period...
An unneeded extension which does more damage than good, and unfortunately Pocket Books novels All try to pander to it with all their novels, dropping references to Xindi to some Archer/Sashi/Tucker-whomever Institute or Planet... Droppings like that even if you read a TOS, TNG, DS9, or V novel... They just can't let it go and bury it like Galactica fans have done for Galactica 1980... Really upsets my stomach...

The E novels only make matters worse by installing their Own continuity and continuation... "The Romulan Wars" novels are hilariously bad, with a superTrip alive and well, and communicating telepathically with T'Pol... The pain does not end there, being so padded and fanboyish and amateurish... It's best to think of E as existing in a damaged timeline courtesy of the Temporal Cold War...or a holonovel joke...

So painful, I saved my money and purchased the boxed collectors set of Lost in Space and enjoyed That series immensely for the nostalgia and originality... More originality than the 4 years of E combined... With stories that have definite Beginnings, Middles, and Endings... The two babes were also hotter than stuckup boyhaircut T'Pol and toadfaced Sushi combined... Billy Mummy had better dialogue than Archer... The bloop was cuter than Porthos... Etc.
And above all else, LIS used Real sets and Real miniatures rather than CGI honey heaven...

Last edited by Lenny Nurdbol; April 21 2013 at 04:35 PM. Reason: intexicated corrections...
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Old April 21 2013, 07:56 PM   #52
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

Yawn, I never heard that before!!! LOL
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Old April 21 2013, 08:25 PM   #53
Third Nacelle
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

teacake wrote: View Post
But Twilight is an ENT ep and a big complaint from the Hilton-D loving folk is that the ship is way too grey. And dark. Also, gel rubbing.
The ship WAS way too grey. You're in space... there's nothing else to look at. I never found it realistic at all that they would send a ship out long-term completely devoid of decoration. The crew would go crazy.

I'm glad Starfleet psychologists figured out by the 23rd century humanoid brains need vivid colors on multi-year missions.
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Old April 21 2013, 08:26 PM   #54
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

As they say, strictly IMHO!

Let's face it, the quality in writings been dropping since TOS went off the air... TNG did an admirable job but then began to stagnate in the later seasons... DS9 was an admirable spinoff at first, but then brought in a war, Section 31 and other junk... V had promise from episode 1 but brought us more of the Alpha and Beta Quadrant rehash when they Should have given us all-new aliens and material...

And then we have E...
Any series, be it movies or TV or novels, that has to go Back and do a Prequel is showing desperation... And then to completely blow all fan visions and desires away with a substandard rehash that inflicts damage on the previous series Because it's a prequel.... Oh, the pain, the pain...
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Old April 21 2013, 08:34 PM   #55
R. Star
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

Why is it a significant percentage of the hardcore TOS fans seem to do their utmost to talk everyone into actively disliking the other series? I don't much care for TOS that much... just too much of a generational gap for me. I love the TOS movies though. So you'll see me on the movie board often enough, the TOS board less. If you like it great... but if you don't... well why are you putting so much effort into it?
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Old April 21 2013, 08:36 PM   #56
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

Fan visions? Fan desires?

A thousand different Star Trek fans had a thousand different visions of the 22nd century before Enterprise.

Enterprise bent established canon from time to time, but never broke it outright. Your imagination is not canon.

...

And I'm sorry you feel later TNG episodes didn't hold up as well as later TOS episodes.
I guess you can't compare Lower Decks and All Good Things to masterpieces like Spock's Brain and The Lights of Zetar.
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Old April 21 2013, 08:38 PM   #57
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Ryva Brall wrote: View Post
. . .Could someone give me some compelling reasons why I should give it another go? Does it get better after the second season?
Save your mind and your Soul--DON'T! . . .
You're too late, Lenny, she's since started a rewatch thread.
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Old April 21 2013, 08:43 PM   #58
feek61
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Why is it a significant percentage of the hardcore TOS fans seem to do their utmost to talk everyone into actively disliking the other series?
I have been a life-long TOS fan and no question it by far is my favorite Trek series. However, to be honest "Enterprise" is my second favorite series. I do find humour in people who consistently try to tell me why I shouldn't like it.

I think it's ok for folks to like different series but I have never seen anything like the hate "Enterprise" gets.
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Old April 21 2013, 08:54 PM   #59
Third Nacelle
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

feek61 wrote: View Post
I think it's ok for folks to like different series but I have never seen anything like the hate "Enterprise" gets.
I took me a couple of watchings through to like Enterprise, and I still rank it far behind DS9 and TNG. When it first came out I hated it. I felt cheated... the series was taking me back in time when I felt they should be going forward in time. In the end T'Pol and Trip saved it for me. I think of the show as their story.
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Old April 21 2013, 09:09 PM   #60
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Should I give Enterprise another chance?

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Fan visions? Fan desires?

A thousand different Star Trek fans had a thousand different visions of the 22nd century before Enterprise.

Enterprise bent established canon from time to time, but never broke it outright. Your imagination is not canon.
And long, long before E came along, us fans discussed and debated what a series set a century before TOS would be like... It was based first and foremost upon "reverse engineering" TOS' pilot episode "The Cage"...
"Hyperdrive" for warp drive... "Time Warp Factor" for "Warp Factor"... That's just for terminology alone... And laser weapons are in use...

Believe it or not, fans came to many of the same conclusions and not a thousand different versions...

For instance, what would the principle weapons be in the 22nd Century? Lasers surely, along with particle beam weapons, maybe even projectile weapons, nuclear torpedoes, etc... E couldn't even take a Hint... Not a Hint! What did E bring us? Phase Guns! Uh, let's see, they can be set to Stun or Kill, can pretty much do everything that Phasers can do... Oh, and even the beam and SOUND EFFECTS are--the Same as used in TNG/DS9/V! Gee, frigging wow... And of course E later brought us these things called PhotonIC torpedoes which not only used--you guessed it--the same red fireball FX and Sound FX as in TNG/DS9/V but also the same physical elongated casings whenever a prop was needed...
Uh, you'd think at the very very very least they could, for nostalgia's sake, insert TOS Era sound FX? Nah, that'd be too much trouble...

And that, my good man, is but one millionth of E's problems... I mean, Forget the theme music, forget the decon gel-rub stuff... If they can't even take the time to come up with original stuff, why bother? Or how about asking some F-A-N-S what their Conception of a pre-TOS series would be like? No, why bother!

More laziness is evident...well...Everywhere... The same rank pip system in use in TNG/DS9/V... Why not sleeve marks or sleeve braid which would logically lead up to TOS? Well, maybe the designers didn't uh Watch TOS?
Archer has a ready room too...another 24th Century standard that apparently vanished in the 23rd Century...

IF NX-01 is indeed a hundred light years from Earth, how they can carry on Real-time transmissions with Star Fleet Command on Earth? Even in the earliest TOS episodes, the ship was days or weeks away via subspace radio...and if you do the calculations, they were no more distant than NX-01 was in most episodes... E's first episode brought NX-01 to Rigel, too, nice bit of Discontinuity there with "The Cage"...

E ends with numerous appearances of the UFP Seal... Not just any UFP seal but the one invented for...you guessed it...TNG/DS9/V... We saw a big, pretty one for the first time in ST-TMP... Maybe that's no longer, uh...Canon? Now if TPTB really, really wanted to please fans of old, they'd use FJ's UFP seal which was The first Federation seal ever put to paper... But they wouldn't do that, they might have to pay the FJ estate for permission...

The whole look of NX-01 is wrong for the time period... Deflector dishes didn't look like that... The streaking warp stars (which Treknical fans have always believed were related to certain generations of warp field engine generators, not available FX)... Ask fans of old what a pre-TOS era ship would be like: NO neon engines, NO glowing deflector dish...

there's this whole look and feel which yells TNG prequel rather than TOS prequel... As if the original series era was entirely overlooked or bypassed...

Treknically speaking, as fans like myself saw the Trek Universe, we went more or less with the Goldsteins' Spaceflight Chronology book, since that's roughly the basis of Trek's future history... You can argue dates, yes, but the overall Theme of Humanity's exploration of the stars and reaching out to new civilizations which forms the cornerstone of GR's philosophy is There... Basically Earth is Not some backwards, backwoods planet surrounded by advanced races with interstellar travel... Quite to the contrary, Earth is The first world in our section of the galaxy to develop FTL drive and reaches out to other worlds with it (before the Prime Directive there was nothing against Sharing tech)... The 21st Century is all about Exploration of new worlds and meeting the Vulcans, Andorians, Tellarites, and other "locals"... Eventually they run into the Romulans who steal the warp drive principle... And later on they run into the Klingons in the early 23rd C or Late 22nd who already Have warp drive and an Empire... What's E bring us? Uh, Vulcan has been Earth's nanny preventing her from reaching the stars for a Century (with the exception of these oddball guys like Mayweather who for whatever reason were spaceborne)... THIS is Anti-Trek, Anti-Roddenberry stuff... So it isn't until the Mid-22nd Century that Earth finally gets its long-range exploration ass together??! Oh, and we love the snotty relationship between Archer and the Vulcans, too...

Sorry, but this vision runs counter to All fan visions this side of the Mirror Universe!

And you'll notice that I'm not so much as touching upon the acting, the writing, the lighting, etc...of E's episodes...
That'd be a book in itself!
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