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Old April 11 2013, 03:37 PM   #76
Christopher
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Marco Palmieri wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
When Ordover left, Marco was promoted to senior editor
I was a senior editor well before John left the company. The one has nothing whatsoever to do with the other.
Oh, sorry.
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Old April 11 2013, 05:18 PM   #77
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
I loved Red Sector, by far the best of the Double Helix series. I certainly detected no contempt.
I'm with you. My first five or so weeks on the old Psi Phi bbs were spent being overwhelmed by emailed, angry cc's regarding my innocent "Loved 'Red Sector'!" comment.
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Old April 11 2013, 05:27 PM   #78
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
I thought the issue with the Star Trek IV novelization, since McIntyre talked about this in an interview a few years ago, was that midway through writing the novelization Paramount suddenly wanted an outline for the book...
Probably both issues are true; wasn't the demand for an outline was because RA had already started reading her first chunk, and had complained to GR? I think this was in a RA interview somewhere, but I also used to hear annual convention presentations from RA in Australia and these do tend to blur over time.

Also, I don't know where you're getting this idea that there's no additional material in the novelization after the trash collectors. I distinctly recall that there's a plotline with an FBI agent that goes right up until the end of the book. The reason I remember this is that I was disappointed when I saw the film and there was no FBI agent; I was looking forward to seeing that on screen.
Well, maybe I'm just forgetting that particular element but my recollection was that, after the trash collectors, the rest of the text reads like "Okay, we're racing towards the end, so just get me out of here..."
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Old April 11 2013, 06:56 PM   #79
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Christopher wrote: View Post
ronny wrote: View Post
AFAIAC, if Carey is not writing a TOS book she's totally slagging on the characters.
I thought her novelization of Voyager: "Flashback" was great. She had to double the length of the story, so she added a really good Kes subplot and a Paris subplot, and she expanded on the ending in a way that made it much more about Janeway's character rather than the pure technobabble climax of the episode. So I'd say it treated the characters pretty well.
Given Carey's attitude, I don't think it's that surprising that Voyager's tribute to TOS, featuring TOS characters, is the novelisation where she actually put in some effort. The other series' characters just happened to benefit from her elevation of TOS in this case.

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
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Ancient Blood is pretty fun though.
It's widely hated, I know, but I rather like it. I especially love the Fighting Sail chapters. If Carey had written Age of Sail fiction, I'd have bought it all avidly.
That would've been nice, as it could've kept her from shoehorning it into her Star Trek fiction. Is Archer suddenly a sailing enthusiast in the "Broken Bow" novelisation?

(Ironically, now that I think about it, Reed's naval family history would've actually provided a legitimate excuse to bring up that sort of thing...)
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Old April 11 2013, 07:24 PM   #80
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

TheAlmanac wrote: View Post
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I thought her novelization of Voyager: "Flashback" was great. She had to double the length of the story, so she added a really good Kes subplot and a Paris subplot, and she expanded on the ending in a way that made it much more about Janeway's character rather than the pure technobabble climax of the episode. So I'd say it treated the characters pretty well.
Given Carey's attitude, I don't think it's that surprising that Voyager's tribute to TOS, featuring TOS characters, is the novelisation where she actually put in some effort. The other series' characters just happened to benefit from her elevation of TOS in this case.
That sounds like a pretty labored rationalization to fit new evidence into your pre-existing thesis. Couldn't it be that she actually liked Voyager? You're forgetting that she did another VGR novel, Fire Ship, which had nothing to do with TOS and is also well-regarded. (She also novelized Equinox and Endgame, but I don't think I ever read those.)
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Old April 11 2013, 11:22 PM   #81
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

SpaceCadetJuan wrote: View Post
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Studios' preference for more limited novelizations, faithful to the source and adding little or nothing, has been an industry-wide trend in recent years. It's not specific to Trek or to Pocket.
I'm going to show my ignorance here, but I just don't see the point. I mean, back in the day before home video, novelizations served a purpose-- it was a way to relive a movie or TV show you couldn't rewatch on demand.

Now that one can get your film or TV episode of choice on a half-dozen different platforms, what purpose does a bare bones novelization which regurgitates the source material scene by scene serve?
One of the things I used to love about reading novelizations was the extra scenes. The Star Wars Prequels for example have a bunch of scenes that weren't in the movie. I remember in AotC there are we got more with the Lars before Anakin and Padme end up on Tatooine, and RotS had the whole birth of the Rebellion storyline that was cut out of the final movie. I've had the Abrams Trek novelizations sitting on my to read pile since the movie came out, but I haven't read it yet since I found out there were no extra scenes.
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Old April 11 2013, 11:33 PM   #82
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
To be fair according to First Contact its a decent place to amass a fleet to protect Earth from the Borg that isn't that far away from seeing as how fast the Cube and the federation fleet got to earth from there.
First of all, First Contact takes place five years after "Cause and Effect," so that doesn't affect what was stated in the episode about it being uncharted before that point.

Second, we don't actually know how fast the fleet got from the Expanse to Earth. Consider that the Enterprise had to get from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in the same amount of time. That should be several days' travel at least. Despite how the film was edited, it's reasonable to assume that the battle near Earth was a separate battle taking place days after the first engagement in the Expanse -- or else that it was a running battle lasting for days.
I thought Data said it would take either a few minutes or hours to get to the fleet during the briefing scene.

JD wrote: View Post
SpaceCadetJuan wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Studios' preference for more limited novelizations, faithful to the source and adding little or nothing, has been an industry-wide trend in recent years. It's not specific to Trek or to Pocket.
I'm going to show my ignorance here, but I just don't see the point. I mean, back in the day before home video, novelizations served a purpose-- it was a way to relive a movie or TV show you couldn't rewatch on demand.

Now that one can get your film or TV episode of choice on a half-dozen different platforms, what purpose does a bare bones novelization which regurgitates the source material scene by scene serve?
One of the things I used to love about reading novelizations was the extra scenes. The Star Wars Prequels for example have a bunch of scenes that weren't in the movie. I remember in AotC there are we got more with the Lars before Anakin and Padme end up on Tatooine, and RotS had the whole birth of the Rebellion storyline that was cut out of the final movie. I've had the Abrams Trek novelizations sitting on my to read pile since the movie came out, but I haven't read it yet since I found out there were no extra scenes.
I think there were a few extra scenes.
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Old April 12 2013, 12:21 AM   #83
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
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Second, we don't actually know how fast the fleet got from the Expanse to Earth. Consider that the Enterprise had to get from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in the same amount of time. That should be several days' travel at least. Despite how the film was edited, it's reasonable to assume that the battle near Earth was a separate battle taking place days after the first engagement in the Expanse -- or else that it was a running battle lasting for days.
I thought Data said it would take either a few minutes or hours to get to the fleet during the briefing scene.
From context, he was saying it would take them 3 hours, 25 minutes to reach the Typhon Sector from their current location. Although it's true that Picard ordered a course set for Earth when the battle was engaged, which does imply it was close to Earth.

And note that he did say "Typhon Sector," not "Typhon Expanse." Maybe those are two different locations. After all, Typhon is a name from Greek mythology, and humans love drawing on classical mythology to name things in space. Heck, there's a real-life trans-Neptunian object by that name, 42355 Typhon, discovered in 2002. So the Typhon Sector could be much closer to Earth than the Typhon Expanse.

Although it's still problematical if the movie is claiming that the Romulan Neutral Zone is mere hours from Earth, even at maximum warp for the E-E.
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Old April 12 2013, 03:06 AM   #84
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Christopher wrote: View Post
And note that he did say "Typhon Sector," not "Typhon Expanse." Maybe those are two different locations. After all, Typhon is a name from Greek mythology, and humans love drawing on classical mythology to name things in space. Heck, there's a real-life trans-Neptunian object by that name, 42355 Typhon, discovered in 2002. So the Typhon Sector could be much closer to Earth than the Typhon Expanse.
Oh didn't catch that so it may have been a different place.

Although it's still problematical if the movie is claiming that the Romulan Neutral Zone is mere hours from Earth, even at maximum warp for the E-E.
Not really let's not forget that Earth and Romulus have to be close enough so that their probably really slow ships that max out at warp 5 on the old scale (which 24th century ships can go considerably faster that) could reach each other in a considerably decent amount of time to fight the battles in the war between them.
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Old April 12 2013, 03:31 AM   #85
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

JD wrote: View Post
I've had the Abrams Trek novelizations sitting on my to read pile since the movie came out, but I haven't read it yet since I found out there were no extra scenes.
Well, there is one, but that's been contradicted by the Ongoing comic series.
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Old April 12 2013, 04:06 AM   #86
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
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Although it's still problematical if the movie is claiming that the Romulan Neutral Zone is mere hours from Earth, even at maximum warp for the E-E.
Not really let's not forget that Earth and Romulus have to be close enough so that their probably really slow ships that max out at warp 5 on the old scale (which 24th century ships can go considerably faster that) could reach each other in a considerably decent amount of time to fight the battles in the war between them.
Define "a decent amount of time." In the age of sail, it could take weeks or months to get to a battlefield. That didn't stop people from having wars. It took Archer and NX-01 months to find the Xindi. And in the novels, engagements in the Earth-Romulan War were generally weeks or months apart. Even with the faster warp factors of the 24th century, it should still take days at least, not hours, to get from Earth to the Federation border.

One of the rules in the writers' bibles for both TOS and TNG was "Do not treat deep space as a local neighborhood." Roddenberry never wanted the show to lose sight of the immensity of space and the difficulty of crossing it. He never wanted ships to be able to hop from planet to planet as easily as commuting to work, because that trivialized space travel. Sadly, that's a rule that Roddenberry's successors frequently ignored.
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Old April 12 2013, 02:31 PM   #87
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Christopher wrote: View Post
TheAlmanac wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
I thought her novelization of Voyager: "Flashback" was great. She had to double the length of the story, so she added a really good Kes subplot and a Paris subplot, and she expanded on the ending in a way that made it much more about Janeway's character rather than the pure technobabble climax of the episode. So I'd say it treated the characters pretty well.
Given Carey's attitude, I don't think it's that surprising that Voyager's tribute to TOS, featuring TOS characters, is the novelisation where she actually put in some effort. The other series' characters just happened to benefit from her elevation of TOS in this case.
That sounds like a pretty labored rationalization to fit new evidence into your pre-existing thesis. Couldn't it be that she actually liked Voyager? You're forgetting that she did another VGR novel, Fire Ship, which had nothing to do with TOS and is also well-regarded. (She also novelized Equinox and Endgame, but I don't think I ever read those.)
To be fair, I haven't read any of her Voyager work, so I can't speak to how Fire Ship treats the characters.

I was going by how other people had described her later novelisations--if she actually liked the show, wouldn't she have been at least slightly more kind in her adaptations of other episodes? It's not as if the teleplay for "Flashback" is just that much better.
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Old April 12 2013, 02:38 PM   #88
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

TheAlmanac wrote: View Post
I was going by how other people had described her later novelisations--if she actually liked the show, wouldn't she have been at least slightly more kind in her adaptations of other episodes? It's not as if the teleplay for "Flashback" is just that much better.
Really, it's generally not a good idea to speculate about another person's motives one way or the other. The only way to actually know is to ask them -- if, that is, they're inclined to answer.
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Old April 12 2013, 04:08 PM   #89
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
And note that he did say "Typhon Sector," not "Typhon Expanse." Maybe those are two different locations. After all, Typhon is a name from Greek mythology, and humans love drawing on classical mythology to name things in space. Heck, there's a real-life trans-Neptunian object by that name, 42355 Typhon, discovered in 2002. So the Typhon Sector could be much closer to Earth than the Typhon Expanse.
Oh didn't catch that so it may have been a different place.

Although it's still problematical if the movie is claiming that the Romulan Neutral Zone is mere hours from Earth, even at maximum warp for the E-E.
Not really let's not forget that Earth and Romulus have to be close enough so that their probably really slow ships that max out at warp 5 on the old scale (which 24th century ships can go considerably faster that) could reach each other in a considerably decent amount of time to fight the battles in the war between them.
The ST Star Charts book shows Earth to be about 25 light-years from the closest portion of the Romulan Neutral Zone. Based on that reference, as well as the Warp speed chart in the Trekpedia, it would take just over an hour for those subspace transmissions heard on the Ent-E bridge in "First Contact" to even get from Earth to the E-E. Even if the E-E could somehow reach subspace speed with their warp drive, they'd be over an hour late arriving to the party, which was already going to hell in a handbasket. They must have gone to ludicrous speed...

(BTW, the same Star Charts book shows Earth to be about 48ly from Romulus.)
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Old April 12 2013, 05:06 PM   #90
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Theyve gone to plaid!
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