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Old March 21 2013, 08:33 AM   #1201
Tiberius
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

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Hmm... maybe a Gatling launcher...
That would be seriously awesome.
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Old March 21 2013, 04:33 PM   #1202
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Yeah, well, I'll try to get around to that along with the other three sets of warp nacelles.
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Old March 22 2013, 06:43 AM   #1203
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

NOOOO! Don't make it MVAM!
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Old April 10 2013, 09:36 PM   #1204
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

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NOOOO! Don't make it MVAM!
What, this again?

Don't listen to him!! He doesn't quite understand the concept of having two ships for the price of one!

Besides, the hull separation hull lining that you have is beautiful.
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Old April 11 2013, 07:07 AM   #1205
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

You mean one ship that splits into two less powerful ships AND costs more than just building two ships. It's a silly gimmick. Otherwise, the Navy would use it. Haven't seen too many sea going ships that split in two.

Anyone that thinks MVAM is a good idea has never played a really deep strategic game like Star Fleet Battles. One large ship will almost always tear apart 2 ships half it's size.
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Old April 11 2013, 04:25 PM   #1206
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

The only time I've seen that done outside TNG is the Disco Volante, the villain Largo's ship in Thunderball. The front half of the boat is a hydrofoil. The silly gimmick was to allow the families of the TNG Enterprise to serve aboard a ship of the line. Splitting into two ships supposedly was for their safety, but I'm not sure if it was ever done but once or twice in the entire series run.
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Old April 11 2013, 05:39 PM   #1207
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

sojourner wrote: View Post
You mean one ship that splits into two less powerful ships AND costs more than just building two ships. It's a silly gimmick. Otherwise, the Navy would use it. Haven't seen too many sea going ships that split in two.
This. A million times this.
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Old April 13 2013, 10:30 AM   #1208
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Potemkin_Prod wrote: View Post
The only time I've seen that done outside TNG is the Disco Volante, the villain Largo's ship in Thunderball. The front half of the boat is a hydrofoil. The silly gimmick was to allow the families of the TNG Enterprise to serve aboard a ship of the line. Splitting into two ships supposedly was for their safety, but I'm not sure if it was ever done but once or twice in the entire series run.

i always had a problem with this idea of the saucer detaching to allow the families to escape to safety in a combat i mean if an enemy attacks the saucer only has impulse engines (as far as i know anyway) to escape so it wouldn't get very far.

Thus is the battle section is crippled then the enemy can still attack the saucer.

Unless you know your going into battle then you could leave the saucer parked somewhere safe.

But this rises the question to my mind of why did the odyssey (i think that was the ship name) in ds9 drop off its non combatants at ds9 rather then just park the saucer?.



my inuniverse theroy is it was intended for that purpose but then starfleet thought it a bad idea and never carried over to many other ships, but left the option there for the galaxies.

but that i guess is a discussion for another thread
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Old April 13 2013, 12:02 PM   #1209
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

judge alba wrote: View Post
Potemkin_Prod wrote: View Post
The only time I've seen that done outside TNG is the Disco Volante, the villain Largo's ship in Thunderball. The front half of the boat is a hydrofoil. The silly gimmick was to allow the families of the TNG Enterprise to serve aboard a ship of the line. Splitting into two ships supposedly was for their safety, but I'm not sure if it was ever done but once or twice in the entire series run.

i always had a problem with this idea of the saucer detaching to allow the families to escape to safety in a combat i mean if an enemy attacks the saucer only has impulse engines (as far as i know anyway) to escape so it wouldn't get very far.

Thus is the battle section is crippled then the enemy can still attack the saucer.

Unless you know your going into battle then you could leave the saucer parked somewhere safe.

But this rises the question to my mind of why did the odyssey (i think that was the ship name) in ds9 drop off its non combatants at ds9 rather then just park the saucer?.



my inuniverse theroy is it was intended for that purpose but then starfleet thought it a bad idea and never carried over to many other ships, but left the option there for the galaxies.

but that i guess is a discussion for another thread
It all seems good until the engineering hulls gonna blow, so you gotta choose between the saucer or a escape pod. I know which one I'd rather be in.

Or even just to survey two planets in the same systems seems to make sense.

I'd love to see this ship separate though.
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Old April 13 2013, 12:55 PM   #1210
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

judge alba wrote: View Post
i always had a problem with this idea of the saucer detaching to allow the families to escape to safety in a combat i mean if an enemy attacks the saucer only has impulse engines (as far as i know anyway) to escape so it wouldn't get very far.
In Peter David's novel series New Frontier they tried to remedy this by installing warp drive on the Galaxy-class Excalibur-A.

But this rises the question to my mind of why did the odyssey (i think that was the ship name) in ds9 drop off its non combatants at ds9 rather then just park the saucer?
I've got no guess as to the fictional reason, but real-world was likely due to the (in)availability of the 6-foot Enterprise-D for filming; only the six-footer was able to separate, but that model was likely being refurbished by ILM for its upcoming appearance in Star Trek Generations.
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Old April 13 2013, 06:59 PM   #1211
The Librarian
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

The weird thing is that two of the times the Enterprise saucer was separated, it explicitly made or was intended to make a long interstellar journey. In "Encounter at Farpoint" it beat the battle section to Farpoint despite having started off going in the opposite direction at Warp 9, and while the saucer is supposed to be able to sustain warp speeds separating at warp was treated as being unusual and it was still a considerable distance. In "Arsenal of Freedom" the saucer is dispatched to a starbase which has to be several light-years distant (at a minimum, and it should be much further given no one's noticed that planet before) without even starting off at warp. The other two times it either is unclear what happened ("Best of Both Worlds", where it got away from the Borg cube under its own power) or it promptly crashed into a planet, rendering the FTL question moot.

Personally, I would assume that the saucer has its own warp engines, possibly powered off its fusion generators. While it would obviously be much slower than the battle section unless given a starting boost, it could still be enough to get away. The warp engines might be those two big sets of glowing blue panels. I know some people think they're botanical gardens, but then there would be no reason for them to glow, and having big windows would be bad for the plants anyway. On the other hand, Federation warp engines always glow blue.
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Old April 13 2013, 07:35 PM   #1212
Potemkin_Prod
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Librarian, time to invoke my favorite heresy: impulse engines are FTL. They have to be.
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Old April 16 2013, 09:10 PM   #1213
C.E. Evans
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

It's not canon, but the TNG Tech Manual has implied that impulse engines do generate a subspace field (to reduce the mass of a vessel), and the saucer can coast at warp for quite awhile after separation before gradually dropping back to sublight.

But ideally, I think saucer separation is really supposed to be performed when the ship isn't moving at all and before combat actually begins. The saucer would then be nowhere near the battle theatre and well out of harm's way--under ideal circumstances.
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Old April 17 2013, 04:26 PM   #1214
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

^Exactly. The warp-speed saucer separation in "Farpoint" was an emergency measure to get the saucer away quickly so the stardrive could do a 180 and face down Q. The fact that they repeated the maneuver in "Arsenal of Freedom" was because it was cheaper to reuse the footage from the pilot; La Forge had taken the Enterprise safely away from Minos, so there was no real reason for him to replicate a dangerous maneuver before going back to fight. And the saucer didn't need to escape in BOBW because that was part of Riker's plan. So really, we've never seen a saucer separation as intended "by the book".

As to the Odyssey not separating, that's due to the real-world fact that at the time, the six-foot Enterprise-D model was likely being refurbished by ILM for its appearance in Generations.
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Old April 17 2013, 04:51 PM   #1215
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Re: USS Grandeur - One... More... Time!

Grandeur's saucer section is capable of functioning as a fully independent starship in its own right. It has its own M/AM core and is high-warp capable (though not as high as the drive section), and it has a respectable complement of armaments including the Wyvern canons on the bow (though they are much less powerful when separated). I suppose it could be thought of as similar to an MVAM configuration but it's really more of a set of distributed capabilities than an operational "mode."
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