RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,909
Posts: 5,388,065
Members: 24,718
Currently online: 563
Newest member: Tribblemaker

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Cumberbatch To Voice Khan
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Shaun And Ed On Phineas and Ferb
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

New Ships Coming From Official Starships Collection
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Trek Stars Take On Ice Bucket Challenge
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Retro Review: Profit and Lace
By: Michelle on Aug 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 10 2013, 09:58 PM   #61
tomswift2002
Captain
 
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

"Flashback" was another Trek episode that I read before seeing the actual episode. I remember when I first saw the episode it took me a while to realize that it was a single episode. I thought, by the book, that the story would've been a 3-part episode, instead of a single episode.

But with the last few novelizations ("Endgame", "Broken Bow", "Shockwave", "The Expanse" & the 2009 movie) I've found that there hasn't been as much "meat" in the stories as there used to be with the older novelizations (STV, STVI, "Descent", "Caretaker", "Flashback", "Trials And "Tribble-ations"---which, for a tiny book managed to get quite a bit in). It seems like, since Marco Palmieri took over as editor, the novelizations had to stick squarely to the script with very little room for exposition and added plots outside what was shown on screen. I remember how in "Day Of Honor" Michael Jan Friedman was able to add the entire plot about the Doctor fining a holiday that he could celebrate.
tomswift2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2013, 11:12 PM   #62
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
It seems like, since Marco Palmieri took over as editor, the novelizations had to stick squarely to the script with very little room for exposition and added plots outside what was shown on screen. I remember how in "Day Of Honor" Michael Jan Friedman was able to add the entire plot about the Doctor fining a holiday that he could celebrate.
That has less to do with editors and more to do with studio requirements. Bad Robot, at least, wanted the Trek XI novelization to be a strict retelling of the script and nothing else. Hell, I think Marco Palmieri had left Pocket when the XI novelization was written and published so he had nothing to do with that.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2013, 11:13 PM   #63
toughlittleship
Fleet Captain
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

^ Friedman was also able to expand "All Good Things" with the novelization and feature Lwaxana, Keiko O'Brien, Pulaski, Barclay, Guinan and Robin Lefler. You could argue that this wasn't necessary due to Picard being the main focus of the actual episode, but it was a neat thing to do.

The "Trials and Tribble-ations" novelization also has a cool scene where Bashir and McCoy meet.
toughlittleship is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2013, 11:14 PM   #64
Allyn Gibson
Vice Admiral
 
Allyn Gibson's Avatar
 
Location: South Pennsyltucky
View Allyn Gibson's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to Allyn Gibson Send a message via Yahoo to Allyn Gibson
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

This discussion has knocked loose some musty memories.

Carey wasn't just sly in the novelization about her feelings concerning Enterprise. She gave an interview to a now-defunct website where she laid it all out directly. She blasted the characters, she criticized the series' writers room. She left no stone unturned.

While I can't find the original interview, I can find a German translation. (The link is to Google Translate's English translation of the German translation.)

And some of the interview (in the original English) can be found in a vintage Trekweb article.
__________________
"When David Marcus cited the great thinkers of history -- "Newton, Einstein, Surak" -- Newt Gingrich did not make his list." -- 24 January 2012

allyngibson.net

Last edited by Allyn Gibson; April 11 2013 at 02:35 AM. Reason: Link removed due to malware warnings.
Allyn Gibson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2013, 12:16 AM   #65
tomswift2002
Captain
 
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post

That has less to do with editors and more to do with studio requirements. Bad Robot, at least, wanted the Trek XI novelization to be a strict retelling of the script and nothing else. Hell, I think Marco Palmieri had left Pocket when the XI novelization was written and published so he had nothing to do with that.

What I meant by Palmieri is that it seems like since he started in 2000-2001 as the Trek editor, and continuing on to the current editors the novelizations have been more or less the script and nothing to flesh out the story.

Before 2000, when John Ordover and the other editors were handling the line, it seems that we got better, more memorable, more "meaty" novelizations.
tomswift2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2013, 12:36 AM   #66
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

^Marco was never "the Trek editor." He was one of the editors who handled Trek. When he first came aboard and for several years thereafter, John Ordover remained the senior editor, with Marco working alongside him, Margaret Clark, Ed Schlesinger, and freelancers Dean Wesley Smith on the Strange New Worlds anthologies and Keith DeCandido on the SCE e-books. When Ordover left, Marco was promoted to senior editor, but he was still working alongside all the others.

Studios' preference for more limited novelizations, faithful to the source and adding little or nothing, has been an industry-wide trend in recent years. It's not specific to Trek or to Pocket.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2013, 12:37 AM   #67
rfmcdpei
Captain
 
rfmcdpei's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
View rfmcdpei's Twitter Profile
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
Looking at the bibliography again, the Star Trek: Challenger series that Carey initiated as a successor to New Earth even died aborning, not having gotten past two entries in the Gateways series.
And there were certainly plans on her part to continue the series. She had discussed them at the time, and they were a unique approach for a Star Trek series.

From memory...

Starfleet assigned another ship to patrol the Belle Terre sector, and that ship carried orders for Nick Keller to return to Earth for reassignment. Keller instead resigns from Starfleet to operate as a privateer in the sector using the Challenger (which he could do, since it was the planet's ship, not Starfleet's ship). The tension in the series would have come from the conflict between Keller and Starfleet.

Thinking in terms of Carey's interests and politics, Keller and his ship would have been the equivalent of the colonial/early Republic militia, while the Starfleet ship would have been the equivalent of the US Army fort overseen by a representative of the far distant government back in Washington.

Of course, none of those plans ever came to fruition.
That's a shame. While I'm not a fan of Carey's writing, not only because of the way it's overly informed by her personal politics, she did write some good novels. Had she been able to explore a corner of the Trek universe in a Challenger series, we could have had something interesting.

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
This discussion has knocked loose some musty memories.

Carey wasn't just sly in the novelization about her feelings concerning Enterprise. She gave an interview to a now-defunct website where she laid it all out directly. She blasted the characters, she criticized the series' writers room. She left no stone unturned.

While I can't find the original interview, I can find a German translation. (The link is to Google Translate's English translation of the German translation.)

And some of the interview (in the original English) can be found in this vintage Trekweb article.
Wow.

OK, those interviews along with the content of Broken Bow make it unsurprising that her involvement with Trek stopped there.

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
What I meant by Palmieri is that it seems like since he started in 2000-2001 as the Trek editor, and continuing on to the current editors the novelizations have been more or less the script and nothing to flesh out the story.

Before 2000, when John Ordover and the other editors were handling the line, it seems that we got better, more memorable, more "meaty" novelizations.
How many novelizations of episodes were there after 2001, period? The printed output of Enterprise generally was fairly small, anyway.
rfmcdpei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2013, 12:54 AM   #68
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
And some of the interview (in the original English) can be found in this vintage Trekweb article.
For what it's worth, my computer warned me of a possible risk of malware at that link. So be warned.
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2013, 02:36 AM   #69
Allyn Gibson
Vice Admiral
 
Allyn Gibson's Avatar
 
Location: South Pennsyltucky
View Allyn Gibson's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to Allyn Gibson Send a message via Yahoo to Allyn Gibson
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
And some of the interview (in the original English) can be found in this vintage Trekweb article.
For what it's worth, my computer warned me of a possible risk of malware at that link. So be warned.
Thanks, Greg. I didn't get that.

I've removed the link. Here's the text at the link, though:

"'Trek' Novelist Diane Carey Criticizes ENTERPRISE and 'Archer' Character"

Posted: 09:27:44 on October 23 2001
By: Steve Krutzler
Dept: Enterprise | www.stenterprise.com

In comments made to the CyFy Pulse web site, TREK novelist Diane Carey offers some candid remarks about the new series, ENTERPRISE.

After admitting that she wrote the ENTERPRISE novelization in "four days flat" while on a cruise (the novel was panned by many critics for lack of effort), Carey says of the "Broken Bow" script, "It's the same as the others. They're all written by the same people. The original Star Trek was written by a glowing roster of science fiction and TV writers who had all done many other works-Harlan Ellison, Dorothy Fontana, Ted Sturgeon, Jeremy Tarcher, etc. Each episode was fresh. These new shows are all written by the same handful of staffers. If a script is somehow accepted from outside, it's rewritten by the staff."

Carey goes on to criticize Captain Archer as currently written, saying "He's a likable guy, but that alone doesn't make a captain. Once told that his landing party could very well die before morning if they didn't receive medication, Captain Kirk would never say, 'I hope they're still alive when the wind dies down.' We'll see if he gets any spunkier. I hope so. Right now he's too worried about disturbing T'Pol to get much done."

She also adds about the series in general, "I assure you, with all due respect, it's like nothing I've ever seen before. Let's just say it's . . . interesting. Heroism is typical human bravado. How . . . primitive. Let's eat and talk about the food."

The novelist goes on to talk about the process of converting a teleplay to a novel in the rest of the interview
__________________
"When David Marcus cited the great thinkers of history -- "Newton, Einstein, Surak" -- Newt Gingrich did not make his list." -- 24 January 2012

allyngibson.net
Allyn Gibson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2013, 06:17 AM   #70
iarann
Lieutenant
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
How many novelizations of episodes were there after 2001, period? The printed output of Enterprise generally was fairly small, anyway.
Enterprise had 3 novelizations out of 4 seasons (4 if you count "The Good That Men Do" which was kind of a novelization/rewrite of the finale), roughly on par with how Voyager and TNG were handled though quite a bit less than DS9 (a lot of the Dominion War stuff was novelized and expanded) and TOS (where everything was novelized in short story form, primarily due to the lack of home media at the time).

The plan for Star Trek shows seems to be novelize the pilot, some of the season endings/beginnings, the finale, and any TOS cast guest appearances. This basically held true for Enterprise.
__________________
Benjamin Handelman
iarann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2013, 09:37 AM   #71
SpaceCadetJuan
Ensign
 
Location: Rochester NY
View SpaceCadetJuan's Twitter Profile
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Studios' preference for more limited novelizations, faithful to the source and adding little or nothing, has been an industry-wide trend in recent years. It's not specific to Trek or to Pocket.
I'm going to show my ignorance here, but I just don't see the point. I mean, back in the day before home video, novelizations served a purpose-- it was a way to relive a movie or TV show you couldn't rewatch on demand.

Now that one can get your film or TV episode of choice on a half-dozen different platforms, what purpose does a bare bones novelization which regurgitates the source material scene by scene serve?

For my money, a novelization is only of interest if it adds character insight and possibly extra subplots. I gots the DVDs, Pocket!
SpaceCadetJuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2013, 12:36 PM   #72
Use of Time
Commodore
 
Use of Time's Avatar
 
Location: Va. Beach, VA
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

I am certainly no fan of novelizations but I think I have worked my way through most of them by now. If you want to see novelizations done right than you'll have to go back to Vonda McIntyre's work with the three movie saga. (TWOK, TSFS, TVH) Those are the only novelizations I personally have found memorable.
__________________
Searching for something, a million miles and a ways to go.
Use of Time is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2013, 01:15 PM   #73
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
this would go a long way towards explaining why a prolific Trek novelist would suddenly stop producing new novels.
IIRC, she stopped writing ST novels to dabble in local politics?

Use of Time wrote: View Post
If you want to see novelizations done right than you'll have to go back to Vonda McIntyre's work with the three movie saga. (TWOK, TSFS, TVH) Those are the only novelizations I personally have found memorable.
If you noticed, Vonda McIntyre had a falling out with Richard Arnold on the ST IV novelization; it was one of the first books that Roddenberry got him to vet rather than Susan Sackett, IIRC. RA hated the authors adding new material and would mention it at conventions. You can see that, after the sequence with the San Francisco trash collectors (McIntyre makes their lines quotes from a Hollywood script they're writing together), she totally stops adding additional material for the rest of the book. It was also her last book for "Star Trek".

But yes, ST II and ST III are amazing novelizations and I have a soft spot for Roddenberry's own ST:TMP, and Carey's "Starfleet Academy" game novelization.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Studios' preference for more limited novelizations, faithful to the source and adding little or nothing, has been an industry-wide trend in recent years. It's not specific to Trek or to Pocket.
Very true. But Richard Arnold did not like the addition of lots of bonus material generated by the Pocket authors either. So the leaner, truer-to-script novelizations started appearing when he moved from volunteer tour guide to Star Trek Office assistant and then salaried "Star Trek Archivist".
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Therin of Andor; April 11 2013 at 01:32 PM. Reason: more
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2013, 02:42 PM   #74
Marco Palmieri
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
What I meant by Palmieri is that it seems like since he started in 2000-2001 as the Trek editor, and continuing on to the current editors the novelizations have been more or less the script and nothing to flesh out the story.

Before 2000, when John Ordover and the other editors were handling the line, it seems that we got better, more memorable, more "meaty" novelizations.
I started as a ST editor in 1996. I did it for twelve years. During that time, I was never involved with any ST novelizations. Not one.

Christopher wrote: View Post
When Ordover left, Marco was promoted to senior editor
I was a senior editor well before John left the company. The one has nothing whatsoever to do with the other.
__________________
Marco

"Pessimism is a misuse of imagination."
Marco Palmieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2013, 02:45 PM   #75
Allyn Gibson
Vice Admiral
 
Allyn Gibson's Avatar
 
Location: South Pennsyltucky
View Allyn Gibson's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to Allyn Gibson Send a message via Yahoo to Allyn Gibson
Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
If you noticed, Vonda McIntyre had a falling out with Richard Arnold on the ST IV novelization; it was one of the first books that Roddenberry got him to vet rather than Susan Sackett, IIRC. RA hated the authors adding new material and would mention it at conventions. You can see that, after the sequence with the San Francisco trash collectors (McIntyre makes their lines quotes from a Hollywood script they're writing together), she totally stops adding additional material for the rest of the book. It was also her last book for "Star Trek".
I thought the issue with the Star Trek IV novelization, since McIntyre talked about this in an interview a few years ago, was that midway through writing the novelization Paramount suddenly wanted an outline for the book, and that McIntyre's response was that she could either finish the book by the deadline or she could stop writing the manuscript and spend her time on an outline, but that she couldn't do both.

Also, I don't know where you're getting this idea that there's no additional material in the novelization after the trash collectors. I distinctly recall that there's a plotline with an FBI agent that goes right up until the end of the book. The reason I remember this is that I was disappointed when I saw the film and there was no FBI agent; I was looking forward to seeing that on screen.
__________________
"When David Marcus cited the great thinkers of history -- "Newton, Einstein, Surak" -- Newt Gingrich did not make his list." -- 24 January 2012

allyngibson.net
Allyn Gibson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.