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Old April 11 2013, 02:52 AM   #1
Shaka Zulu
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Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

From his blog and New Musical Express

The difficulty with giving a comment on Margaret Thatcher's death to the British tabloids is that, no matter how calmly and measuredly you speak, the comment must be reported as an "outburst" or an "explosive attack" if your view is not pro-establishment.
Thatcher was not a strong or formidable leader. She simply did not give a shit about people, and this coarseness has been neatly transformed into bravery by the British press who are attempting to re-write history in order to protect patriotism.
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Old April 11 2013, 03:34 AM   #2
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

Well, he's right.
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Old April 11 2013, 03:38 AM   #3
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

They tried to do the same thing with Reagan and succeeded, I can see why they tried with her. Americans forget his many, many fuck-ups and only remember the good. It's kind of sad since we're ignoring history.

At least some British people actually remember what happened and good on them. Keep it up and don't let anyone forget. That way you don't have to suffer every single politician acting like she was God's gift to Britain.
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Old April 11 2013, 04:19 AM   #4
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

Not really surprising for Morrisey. Dave Wakeling (The [English] Beat, General Public) and Billy Bragg had somewhat more measured responses, from rollingstone.com:

Dave Wakeling:
Although I rejoice in no one's death, Margaret Thatcher's passing is an important event for those who lived under her regime. She made competitors out of neighbors, and people stopped talking at bus stops, even about the weather, in the shadow of her affected, pretend posh accent. Margaret made herself big on the tears and suffering of others, more Cromwell than Churchill, yet however much pain she caused us, I wish comfort and solace to her family today.
Billy Bragg:
This is not a time for celebration. The death of Margaret Thatcher is nothing more than a salient reminder of how Britain got into the mess that we are in today. Of why ordinary working people are no longer able to earn enough from one job to support a family; of why there is a shortage of decent affordable housing; of why domestic growth is driven by credit, not by real incomes; of why tax-payers are forced to top up wages; of why a spiteful government seeks to penalise the poor for having an extra bedroom; of why Rupert Murdoch became so powerful; of why cynicism and greed became the hallmarks of our society.

Raising a glass to the death of an infirm old lady changes none of this. The only real antidote to cynicism is activism. Don't celebrate – organise!
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Old April 11 2013, 04:31 AM   #5
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

Another good take on Thatcher comes from, surprisingly, Russell Brand:

I hope I'm not being reductive but it seems Thatcher's time in power was solely spent diminishing the resources of those who had least for the advancement of those who had most. I know from my own indulgence in selfish behaviour that it's much easier to get what you want if you remove from consideration the effect your actions will have on others.

Is that what made her so formidable, her ability to ignore the suffering of others? Given the nature of her legacy "survival of the fittest" – a phrase that Darwin himself only used twice in On the Origin of Species, compared to hundreds of references to altruism, love and cooperation, it isn't surprising that there are parties tonight in Liverpool, Glasgow and Brixton – from where are they to have learned compassion and forgiveness?

The blunt, pathetic reality today is that a little old lady has died, who in the winter of her life had to water roses alone under police supervision. If you behave like there's no such thing as society, in the end there isn't. Her death must be sad for the handful of people she was nice to and the rich people who got richer under her stewardship. It isn't sad for anyone else.
It's a sharp and incisive piece of work. I wouldn't have expected it from Brand, and my perception of Brand as a person has risen considerably since reading it.
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Old April 11 2013, 05:15 AM   #6
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

^Russell Brand is an intelligent man with a gift for cutting through the crap in his writing. If you get a chance, look up his piece on Amy Winehouse and addiction. I got a lump in my throat reading it.
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Old April 11 2013, 05:24 AM   #7
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

Squiggy wrote: View Post
Be a man and bring it to TNZ.


Funny how politics in the entertainment forum are okay when the politics involve attacking conservatives.
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Old April 11 2013, 05:54 AM   #8
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

the G-man wrote: View Post
Squiggy wrote: View Post
Be a man and bring it to TNZ.


Funny how politics in the entertainment forum are okay when the politics involve attacking conservatives.
I didn't realize that Squiggy started this thread, or for that matter, that he has even posted in it so far.
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Old April 11 2013, 06:10 AM   #9
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

Thatcher was great for the UK. Set the trajectory of the country in a much better direction than how she found it. She was right all along in being reluctant to join the euro. Helped take down communism along with Reagan and Pope JP II. Only negative was the whole South African thing...but everyone supports a bad regime once in awhile. Not too big of a deal in the bigger context of things.
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Old April 11 2013, 07:04 AM   #10
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

the G-man wrote: View Post
Squiggy wrote: View Post
Be a man and bring it to TNZ.


Funny how politics in the entertainment forum are okay when the politics involve attacking conservatives.
Don't be such a tit. There's a difference between injecting politics into a memorial thread and introducing it from the start. Politics are also a bit more relevant to the life of a politician than a movie reviewer.
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Old April 11 2013, 08:26 AM   #11
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

What else is there to talk about her but her politics? We could talk about her hair.
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Old April 11 2013, 08:38 AM   #12
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

Im not sure TV/M needs its own thread on Thatcher just because some media celebrities have opinions on the death, but the articles posted are interesting and bear discussion. However, everyone is to drop the sniping and flaming now before it gets going properly, or infractions will follow.
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Old April 11 2013, 08:56 AM   #13
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
the G-man wrote: View Post
Squiggy wrote: View Post
Be a man and bring it to TNZ.


Funny how politics in the entertainment forum are okay when the politics involve attacking conservatives.
I didn't realize that Squiggy started this thread, or for that matter, that he has even posted in it so far.
G-Man lacks the ability to distinguish between different individuals or those individuals and a broad political ideology that has a ton of variation. They're all just one big group mind equally responsible for everything anyone else says.

He also lacks the ability to distinguish between a movie reviewer making a harmless comment about healthcare access that insults no one in a review of a movie about healthcare and a bigoted author who wants to deny an entire group equal rights and finances activism and promotes legislation to that end.

He also lacks the ability to tell the difference between a movie reviewer with no significant political power and an immensely powerful and influential politician whose policies affected tens of millions and still have an effect today, and why there's a difference in criticizing them.

He lacks tact, and understanding of the words irony or hypocrisy, the guts to defend his BS in a place where people can respond freely, the ability to not politicize every insignificant thing, or the knowledge of when to shut up and let something go instead of expanding it elsewhere.

In summary, G-Man is hopelessly lacking.

ETA: Sorry, Cultcross, I was typing this up as you posted yours. I won't say anything else.
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Old April 11 2013, 09:15 AM   #14
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

I had wondered when Morrissey would crawl out from under his rock.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, I just think she's been demonised to an extent, and people tend to forget A-what an utter mess the UK was in 1979, B-That manufacturing and the mining industry were already in decline before she came to power, in fact more mines closed in the 11 years before she came to power than in her 11 years in office. Plus she bought industry to the UK (Toyota, Nissan etc) C- That the Unions really were crippling the country.

None of this means I agree with everything she did or everything she stood for, Clause 28, South Africa, Pinochet (although all leaders cosy up to nasty dictators, take Blair with Gaddaffi) I just think people don't seem to be objective about her (I understand why). I think the BBC has done a good job over the past few days of portraying her time in office fairly, highlighting the good and bad, and also suggesting that most of what happened in the 80s would have happened anyway--maybe not as deep or as fast, but things did need to change.

I think she was a neccesary evil, except I don't think that's fair as I don't think she was evil, just harsh. A neccesary harshness then.

But that's just my opinion, I just hope people look at the facts (on both sides) and also understand the context of the period as well.
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Old April 11 2013, 09:24 AM   #15
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Re: Morrisey: 'Margret Thatcher did not give a shit about people'

I love how the British musical establishment were able to see through her and kick her arse in song during the 1980's-too bad that we didn't have this kind of hyper-aware artist in North America to kick the asses of both Reagan/Bush and Byron Muldoon- all we had was Bruce Springsteen, and his big song about the same things ended up getting co-opted by the Republicans/Reagan & Co.

BTW, for those interested in the above-mentioned artists and the songs that they recorded about Thatcher, here's an album of songs about her by many of those artists.
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