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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old April 9 2013, 06:21 PM   #61
Danger Ace
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
If the last is true about Whitney, then why did she still appear in the movies?
From what I recall, she had been through a lot and I think giving her something in the first film was an act of charity. It may have been done for PR reasons or as a way of making up for her dismissal decades prior or it could have been done as a sincere act of niceness. I think GR had a lot of faults but I would also like to believe he was not some hand wringing cartoon villian - that he was capable of some heart-felt acts of kindness.
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Old April 9 2013, 06:25 PM   #62
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
If the last is true about Whitney, then why did she still appear in the movies?
The Whitney case is complicated and I'm sure we'll never know all the facts with confidence. I think at one point she said that she was cut from the series for budgetary reasons, and she was a little bitter that Nichelle had been spared for the demographic reason. Like a lot of people who've been shown the door, she herself probably never knew the real reason any more than we do.

If it was GR who assaulted her, he probably was so used to getting his way with actresses under his control that he couldn't get it through his head that she meant no.

From what I gather, not having read her book, getting on screen in TMP after her low point in life must have been a huge boost for her, and I think she was recruited for the film largely as an act of kindness.
Having Whitney in the film makes sense for the most part. She was one of nine major recurring players.....regulars or day players notwithstanding. (Only Mr. Kyle failed to show for TMP.) She preceded Chapel and Chekov.

Demographics weren't as prevalent or calculated in 1979 as they are today. Why would GLW object to Nichelle Nichols' inclusion when she was virtually present from first to last aired episode? GLW appeared in exactly eight.

I read from one of GLW's accounts that Robert Wise seemed to shoot her in unflattering light in retaliation for some unintentional faux pas on her part. I don't remember what ''warranted'' this lighting.

And I fear that Roddenberry WAS the unnamed Executive in her autobiography, partially since Gene Coon hadn't the notorious rep Roddenberry had in ''romantic'' matters.
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Old April 9 2013, 07:34 PM   #63
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Gary7 wrote: View Post
(it doesn't look like she ever started a family).
She has a son, Scott, who was one of the background kids in Miri, I believe.
I think she has more than one as I vaguely recall her saying that her 'kids' were in Miri but her son Scott is an extra in TMP too - I think he was the Vulcan nurse on the Rec Deck.

The intention was for Grace to be a recurring guest on the Phase 2 series so she appears in some of the promotional shots and she's with the main characters on the Rec Deck. It's a shame they didn't give her another scene outside the transporter room where she got to do something though. I believe the story is that she play-acted a trashy dolled up secretary when he first arrived and he didn't allow her to wear any glamour make-up in her scenes but I still think she looked good for a woman pushing fifty.

I also rather like that the women in TOS were not the glossy replicants we often see on TV today. They can't all have been shagging Gene surely?

In the UK we were not so anally retentive about race relations and I think we showed interracial relationships on TV years before Trek did. It's really hard for us to comprehend just how backwards the USA was in the sixties, especially when you compare it to apartheid in South Africa. I don't think kissing Uhura had the same symbolism over here as it had in the USA... or would have had if they had shown it!
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Old April 9 2013, 07:47 PM   #64
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Marsden wrote: View Post
I remember that! I think Benny Hill was a vampire in that one!
Yeah, that was "Wonder-Gran Meets Dracula."

To your other point:


Marsden wrote: View Post
I think they were speaking from a purely real life production and not considering in story ramifications.
IOW, they had a white actor kiss a black actor on tv. Other information they have treated as superfluous, like the actual plot or circumstances or even the characters themselves.

And, whether Elaan of Troyius was on before or after, it doesn't matter. I hate to be so blunt, but it wouldn't count as "interacial" unless it involves a black person, as per attitudes in US, especially at that time. They had seperate facilities for whites and blacks, although they sometimes used the word coloreds.
The most important point of the thread. Story did not matter to the audience--it was all about the lips of a white man kissing that of a black woman during one of the most racially exposive periods of the 20th century.
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Old April 10 2013, 12:39 AM   #65
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

foxhot wrote: View Post
And I fear that Roddenberry WAS the unnamed Executive in her autobiography, partially since Gene Coon hadn't the notorious rep Roddenberry had in ''romantic'' matters.
His reputation notwithstanding, Gene Coon wasn't a part of the program when the assault occurred. It wasn't him.
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Old April 10 2013, 02:21 AM   #66
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Marsden wrote: View Post
I remember that! I think Benny Hill was a vampire in that one!
Yeah, that was "Wonder-Gran Meets Dracula."
"Ned Kelly's Son" has quite a long scene, mostly from the rear, it's on youtube. Saw it on the local station not long ago. I thought i dreamt seeing it as a kid.
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Old April 10 2013, 02:23 AM   #67
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Harvey: ''His reputation notwithstanding, Gene Coon wasn't a part of the program when the assault occurred. It wasn't him.''

Agreed. Not to imply it was ever Coon. Do you also believe it was Roddenberry?
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Old April 10 2013, 06:57 AM   #68
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

I think it is probable, but only Whitney, Nimoy, and the assailant (if he is still alive) know the executive's identity. A former poster on this forum, Vance, claimed that fans had figured out the executive's identity -- and that it was not Roddenberry -- but I don't believe he ever said who.
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Old April 10 2013, 07:49 AM   #69
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

In her bio Nichelle Nichols mentions a studio higher up who tried to coerce her into sex in his office and she writes that she screamed at him and stormed out. It's not impossible this was the same guy that Grace wrote about. But as so many stories have changed and been embellished in the past 47 years it's unlikely the truth will ever be clear.

All that said, a year ago I got to take Grace Lee to lunch and she was a total delight to talk to.
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Old April 10 2013, 08:17 AM   #70
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Awww - I love Grace and Rand! I've been nagging IDW to use her character more in the ongoing comic since the beginning. I also made a custom action figure and gave Rand a larger role in my Star Trek Youtube comic. Go Grace

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Old April 10 2013, 01:43 PM   #71
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Does this mean that GLW informed Nimoy about the incident? (No other co-stars?) So much time's passed I only remember the incident itself from her book.
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Old April 10 2013, 02:35 PM   #72
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

foxhot wrote: View Post
Does this mean that GLW informed Nimoy about the incident? (No other co-stars?) So much time's passed I only remember the incident itself from her book.
I'm interested in that answer, too.

How would HE know and no one else?
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Old April 10 2013, 08:20 PM   #73
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

foxhot wrote: View Post
And I fear that Roddenberry WAS the unnamed Executive in her autobiography, partially since Gene Coon hadn't the notorious rep Roddenberry had in ''romantic'' matters.
I don't. Nichelle Nichols was sexually harrassed as well - in her case it was by a low-mid level NBC executive. Maybe the same guy tried it on Grace Lee. In any case, I am loathe to judge anyone guilty without due process.

Also, there have been various reasons given for GLW's release from TOS. It has been said her demons had made her unreliable. Some say it was because of budget. Some say it was because the Rand character just plainly didn't serve any purpose. I have never heard she was let go because she didn't submit to Roddenberry's sexual demands (if any had been made) - and she could have probably made a lot of money from such claims.
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Old April 10 2013, 09:39 PM   #74
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

foxhot wrote: View Post
And I fear that Roddenberry WAS the unnamed Executive in her autobiography, partially since Gene Coon hadn't the notorious rep Roddenberry had in ''romantic'' matters.
Coon was also battling the illness that took his life, IIRC, as well as writing scripts (he would be reunited with the love of his life just in time to spend only a few years together.)
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Old April 10 2013, 11:04 PM   #75
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
Also, there have been various reasons given for GLW's release from TOS. It has been said her demons had made her unreliable. Some say it was because of budget. Some say it was because the Rand character just plainly didn't serve any purpose. I have never heard she was let go because she didn't submit to Roddenberry's sexual demands (if any had been made) - and she could have probably made a lot of money from such claims.
I don't think any of us are in any place to judge GLW's state of mind then or now but I suspect that making any kind of allegation against anybody after so many years when there was only her word as to what happened would not have been a wise move whether she wanted to or not and I'm not sure that she believes that there would be anything to be gained from it for her personally.

The early episodes were on CBS action last month and they are of higher quality than many of the later shows, with more attention paid to ensemble character development. If you watch the Rand episodes in order, there is a fair amount of development going on but I think the mistake was bringing too much of her and Kirk to the fore too quickly and not giving her anything significant to do beyond that role. Her presence as the sociable female lead would have given Sulu and Uhura more chance to develop and she was also meant to be friends with Mr Spock. You can see lots of ways the character could have been used but you can also see, given how sexist TV was in the sixties and the way they moved to less emphasis on the supporting cast why, alongside other issues such as budget, a drinking problem, and a disgruntled executive her situation led where it did.

The ongoing IDW comic has gone the other way - placing Rand in the role of a security guard but totally overlooking the fact that she's a yeoman and giving her any admin duties that place her in Kirk's vicinity as his assistant where she might contribute in other ways. I've always thought the character was a gold mine. She was the everyman who could ask dumb questions to help out the audience unfamiliar with sci fi concepts, she could be the damsel in distress or if treated like a starfleet officer (although given Troi's treatment that would not have happened until after 1995) she could have saved the day. I've always found it strange that writers have never really treated the character with any respect. I'm going to rehabilitate the character into the 21st century if it kills me!
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