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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old April 6 2013, 03:14 AM   #46
Melakon
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

To scotpens: There were occasional glimpses of bare nipplage as I remember. Though I was married then, so couldn't risk getting too excited about it.
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Old April 6 2013, 07:27 AM   #47
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

scotpens wrote: View Post


Avengers? Looks like an issue of X-Men to me.
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Old April 8 2013, 01:16 PM   #48
Shaka Zulu
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
In the episodes, Pegasus was hitched to a plow.
That should be 'Aphrodite's wings were bound, and she was brought back to Earth.'

What gets me about all of this with her and her talent is that Paramount/Dot wouldn't even consider recording her, but was interested in recording Leonard Nimoy, who sang a ton of crap (and who still has fans that want to see his records be released on CD by Universal Music Group!) I'm surprised that she didn't leave the show because of that.
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Old April 8 2013, 08:10 PM   #49
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
In the episodes, Pegasus was hitched to a plow.
That should be 'Aphrodite's wings were bound, and she was brought back to Earth.'

What gets me about all of this with her and her talent is that Paramount/Dot wouldn't even consider recording her, but was interested in recording Leonard Nimoy, who sang a ton of crap (and who still has fans that want to see his records be released on CD by Universal Music Group!) I'm surprised that she didn't leave the show because of that.
Except, Nichelle Nichols did release an album in 1967 (and one or two sometime later). She was a lounge singer of modest talent (I say that because I'm nice). She didn't leave the show because she never had even the promise of anything better (or at all) - Oh yeah, and tha encounter with MLK.

Sleeping with Gene Roddenberry was a lottery win for her.
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Old April 8 2013, 08:17 PM   #50
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
Except, Nichelle Nichols did release an album in 1967 (and one or two sometime later). She was a lounge singer of modest talent (I say that because I'm nice). She didn't leave the show because she never had even the promise of anything better (or at all) - Oh yeah, and tha encounter with MLK.

Sleeping with Gene Roddenberry was a lottery win for her.
That's a bit harsh, especially considering that a lot of Trek actors never did anything else of note after the show.
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Old April 8 2013, 09:26 PM   #51
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
I recently picked upa Star Trek magazine off the newstand wherein they had an article on the "Top 100 Moments in Star Trek." In the number two spot was the inter-racial kiss between Kirk and Uhura from "Plato's Stepchildren", and it was being hailed as an advancement. I could never get behind that notion.

Why?

Because it is painfully clear in the episode that neither Kirk nor Uhura were acting of their own free-will. They were forced, and that it is, by every definition, rape! It was, in fact, made worse by imagery of a white-on-black rape (though Kirk was just as much a victim - please no, "you can't rape the willing" snarkiness) especially in those volatile times.

So again, why is it celebrated? Was it truly a positive depiction? Did it really break a barrier? Do folks get so wrapped in wanting to praise the series that they feel justified in manufacturing and misrepresenting things?
I agree with your last line---It IS a sad case of wanting to say that TOS was doing something progressive.

No, progressive would have been any black/white couple kissing of their own free will.
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Old April 8 2013, 10:24 PM   #52
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Caje wrote: View Post
Danger Ace wrote: View Post
Except, Nichelle Nichols did release an album in 1967 (and one or two sometime later). She was a lounge singer of modest talent (I say that because I'm nice). She didn't leave the show because she never had even the promise of anything better (or at all) - Oh yeah, and tha encounter with MLK.

Sleeping with Gene Roddenberry was a lottery win for her.
That's a bit harsh, especially considering that a lot of Trek actors never did anything else of note after the show.
Not at all. Nichelle was hired because she was having sex with Gene Roddenberry. He even fired another african-american actor to make room for her. Fortunately for her "Star Trek" took-off the way it did because she wasn't making by virtue of her talent as a singer or an actress.

But yes, I agree, Trek was a windfall for both Takei and Koening as well. I spoke of Nichols merely because she was the focus of the conversation. My main point was her singing wasn't good enough to support her showbiz ambitions though she was given opportunity.

Also I seem to recall someone mentioning how Gene Roddenberry was to thank for her getting some night club bookings too.
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Old April 8 2013, 10:34 PM   #53
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Roddenberry had known (or known of) Nichols at least since "The Lieutenant" days, where she made an appearance. A relationship of such type isn't unbelievable, since Inside Star Trek: The Real Story mentions her hiding under Gene's desk in a sweater and no knickers.
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Old April 8 2013, 11:12 PM   #54
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Melakon wrote: View Post
Roddenberry had known (or known of) Nichols at least since "The Lieutenant" days, where she made an appearance. A relationship of such type isn't unbelievable, since Inside Star Trek: The Real Story mentions her hiding under Gene's desk in a sweater and no knickers.
I agree. Actresses have been paying off producers with sex since the industry began. I even heard Gene nailed Bea Arthur and Bela Abzug (lucky stiff!).
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Last edited by Danger Ace; April 9 2013 at 02:42 AM.
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Old April 9 2013, 02:01 AM   #55
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

The sad fact is, GR was a sleaze bag in this regard. He cast TOS's female regular roles, all three of them, with women he was having sex with or getting sexual favors from, and it showed. STAR TREK suffered for this.

The really good, talented, and let's face it, better-looking actresses were getting work on other shows without trading favors for it. STAR TREK was good, but if GR had been a better man, the show could have been so much better.

Director Ralph Senensky alludes in his blog to a problem the show was having, with desirable actresses refusing to come in for guest roles on STAR TREK. Guess why.
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Old April 9 2013, 04:07 AM   #56
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Grace Lee Whitney disputes the Justman/Solow claim that she was sleeping with Roddenberry. Given the things she does admit to in her memoir, I believe her.

On the other hand, I think there is a good chance that Roddenberry was the nameless "executive" who sexually assaulted Whitney. Whitney won't name names, though.
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Old April 9 2013, 10:37 AM   #57
Shaka Zulu
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
Caje wrote: View Post
Danger Ace wrote: View Post
Except, Nichelle Nichols did release an album in 1967 (and one or two sometime later). She was a lounge singer of modest talent (I say that because I'm nice). She didn't leave the show because she never had even the promise of anything better (or at all) - Oh yeah, and tha encounter with MLK.

Sleeping with Gene Roddenberry was a lottery win for her.
That's a bit harsh, especially considering that a lot of Trek actors never did anything else of note after the show.
Not at all. Nichelle was hired because she was having sex with Gene Roddenberry. He even fired another african-american actor to make room for her. Fortunately for her "Star Trek" took-off the way it did because she wasn't making by virtue of her talent as a singer or an actress.

But yes, I agree, Trek was a windfall for both Takei and Koening as well. I spoke of Nichols merely because she was the focus of the conversation. My main point was her singing wasn't good enough to support her showbiz ambitions though she was given opportunity.

Also I seem to recall someone mentioning how Gene Roddenberry was to thank for her getting some night club bookings too.
Melakon wrote: View Post
Roddenberry had known (or known of) Nichols at least since "The Lieutenant" days, where she made an appearance. A relationship of such type isn't unbelievable, since Inside Star Trek: The Real Story mentions her hiding under Gene's desk in a sweater and no knickers.
Danger Ace wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
Roddenberry had known (or known of) Nichols at least since "The Lieutenant" days, where she made an appearance. A relationship of such type isn't unbelievable, since Inside Star Trek: The Real Story mentions her hiding under Gene's desk in a sweater and no knickers.
I agree. Actresses have been paying off producers with sex since the industry began. I even heard Gene nailed Bea Arthur and Bela Abzug (lucky stiff!).
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
The sad fact is, GR was a sleaze bag in this regard. He cast TOS's female regular roles, all three of them, with women he was having sex with or getting sexual favors from, and it showed. STAR TREK suffered for this.

The really good, talented, and let's face it, better-looking actresses were getting work on other shows without trading favors for it. STAR TREK was good, but if GR had been a better man, the show could have been so much better.

Director Ralph Senensky alludes in his blog to a problem the show was having, with desirable actresses refusing to come in for guest roles on STAR TREK. Guess why.
Harvey wrote: View Post
Grace Lee Whitney disputes the Justman/Solow claim that she was sleeping with Roddenberry. Given the things she does admit to in her memoir, I believe her.

On the other hand, I think there is a good chance that Roddenberry was the nameless "executive" who sexually assaulted Whitney. Whitney won't name names, though.
You people are destroying my childhood, and I can't forgive you for it!

If the last is true about Whitney, then why did she still appear in the movies?
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Old April 9 2013, 10:52 AM   #58
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
If the last is true about Whitney, then why did she still appear in the movies?
The Whitney case is complicated and I'm sure we'll never know all the facts with confidence. I think at one point she said that she was cut from the series for budgetary reasons, and she was a little bitter that Nichelle had been spared for the demographic reason. Like a lot of people who've been shown the door, she herself probably never knew the real reason any more than we do.

If it was GR who assaulted her, he probably was so used to getting his way with actresses under his control that he couldn't get it through his head that she meant no.

From what I gather, not having read her book, getting on screen in TMP after her low point in life must have been a huge boost for her, and I think she was recruited for the film largely as an act of kindness.
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Old April 9 2013, 03:38 PM   #59
Gary7
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
From what I gather, not having read her book, getting on screen in TMP after her low point in life must have been a huge boost for her, and I think she was recruited for the film largely as an act of kindness.
I thought it was great to see her in TMP, although her part was so small that there wasn't much she could do with it. Still, it felt like her best acting days were behind her... and she never did much else after that (it doesn't look like she ever started a family). She has participated in the Star Trek Phase Two fan episode productions and her acting ability there came through a bit rough around the edges, feeling a lot less refined than her early TOS work (to me anyway).


Back to the original topic... Even when I first saw this episode as a kid, I couldn't help but notice that the kiss between Kirk and Uhura wasn't really "complete". It's obvious how you see Shatner's open mouth exposed, not making a complete seal. This was in stark contrast to Nimoy and Barrett, who clearly had full lips contact. At the time, I just took it as Kirk's resistance to follow through, knowing that a full kiss may weaken his resolve to resist. Who knew how far it would go? The Platonians might've ended up having them copulating on the floor for their amusement.

Anyway, it always seemed to me that "first interracial kiss" was over-hyped for what it truly was in this episode.
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Last edited by Gary7; April 9 2013 at 03:52 PM.
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Old April 9 2013, 04:29 PM   #60
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Re: "Plato's Stepchildren:" Kirk-Uhura Rape Scene?

Gary7 wrote: View Post
(it doesn't look like she ever started a family).
She has a son, Scott, who was one of the background kids in Miri, I believe.
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