RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,106
Posts: 5,432,578
Members: 24,931
Currently online: 553
Newest member: emogs

TrekToday headlines

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Beltran Introduces Shakespeare To Theater Group
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Burton To Be Honored at Facets Boo! Bash
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 7 2013, 11:09 PM   #46
indolover
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

Well, morality doesn't exist and anything goes in life. I don't think Section 31's actions can really be deemed "wrong". I'm sure many Gamma Quadrant races would deem it poetic justice.
indolover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7 2013, 11:13 PM   #47
Ancient Mariner
Rear Admiral
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Location: Great Pumpkin, is that you?
View Ancient Mariner's Twitter Profile
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

indolover wrote: View Post
Well, morality doesn't exist and anything goes in life.
Thankfully an overwhelming majority of humanity disagrees with this sentiment.
__________________
Ancient Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7 2013, 11:16 PM   #48
indolover
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
indolover wrote: View Post
Well, morality doesn't exist and anything goes in life.
Thankfully an overwhelming majority of humanity disagrees with this sentiment.
lol.. can you read minds?
indolover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7 2013, 11:16 PM   #49
Rusty Nova
Fleet Captain
 
Rusty Nova's Avatar
 
Location: Avon
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

he read mine
__________________

Hello to Jason Isaacs!
Rusty Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7 2013, 11:50 PM   #50
Elvira
Vice Admiral
 
Elvira's Avatar
 
Location: t'girl
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

DWF wrote: View Post
If Section 31 had ever intended to use the cure why didn't they let it known that they had it ...
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Let's see, likely Admiral Ross (as a member of S31) knew of the sickness and the cure. And S31 (at least claimed) that the President's inner circle included a S31 member.
junxon wrote: View Post
admiral ross wasn't a member, he just went along with the plan.
Debatable, my point stands. S31 might not have been informing every Captain, Commander and Ensign about the cure, but it's likely that some people higher up knew about it. Within the Admiralty, the Council, the President.
.

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
They're no more a part of the Federation than Cerberus is part of the Systems Alliance.
The people in S31 are apparently from among the member people of the Federation, how do you figure they're not "part of the Federation?"

__________________
.
no mere mortal can resist the evil of the thriller
Elvira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8 2013, 12:07 AM   #51
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
Pretty much. They're no more a part of the Federation than Cerberus is part of the Systems Alliance.
Though at least Cerberus has their own ships, and armies, and secret bases, and a cooler magnificent bastard chess master boss, and pretty much everything else needed to make them a more effective and scary evil organization then section 31 could ever hope to be.

I mean seriously Section 31 couldn't do crap if they didn't have access to Starfleet toys and personal which is another reason they suck at this. It also makes their bitching about Starfleet idealism hypocritical since they can't do s@#t without either their unknowing help or coerced help.

I mean really why hasn't Starfleet told them to f@#k off already and see how "dangerous" they are when they have to use their own non existent resources. I'd give them a week at most before the organization fell apart.

Cerberus at lest is self sufficient for the most part


T'Girl wrote: View Post
that the President's inner circle included a S31 member.
Actually its been taken to mean that they're SPYING on the president.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
They're no more a part of the Federation than Cerberus is part of the Systems Alliance.
The people in S31 are apparently from among the member people of the Federation, how do you figure they're not "part of the Federation?"
The same way Cerberus isn't a part of the System's Alliance. they may use resources from it but they don't answer to it. Which makes them a rouge terrorist group.
Hartzilla2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8 2013, 12:42 AM   #52
Ancient Mariner
Rear Admiral
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Location: Great Pumpkin, is that you?
View Ancient Mariner's Twitter Profile
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

indolover wrote: View Post
Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
indolover wrote: View Post
Well, morality doesn't exist and anything goes in life.
Thankfully an overwhelming majority of humanity disagrees with this sentiment.
lol.. can you read minds?
No. But I read. And study. I think critically and rationally. Then draw informed, intelligent conclusions. If you're interested in evidence, this would be a good place to begin.
__________________
Ancient Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8 2013, 01:15 AM   #53
indolover
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
indolover wrote: View Post
Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
Thankfully an overwhelming majority of humanity disagrees with this sentiment.
lol.. can you read minds?
No. But I read. And study. I think critically and rationally. Then draw informed, intelligent conclusions. If you're interested in evidence, this would be a good place to begin.
Well critical thinking has shown me and frankly many Westerners that morality is non-existent, and that anything goes since nothing is absolute.
indolover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8 2013, 01:25 AM   #54
Rusty Nova
Fleet Captain
 
Rusty Nova's Avatar
 
Location: Avon
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

you going to do the 'greed is good' speech from Wall Street?
__________________

Hello to Jason Isaacs!
Rusty Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8 2013, 01:41 AM   #55
Ancient Mariner
Rear Admiral
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Location: Great Pumpkin, is that you?
View Ancient Mariner's Twitter Profile
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

indolover wrote: View Post
Well critical thinking has shown me and frankly many Westerners that morality is non-existent, and that anything goes since nothing is absolute.
Heh ... in that case, those "many Westerners" are thoroughly ignoring (either willfully or naively) the evolution of the entire foundation of their civilization, dating back to the American and French Revolutions, the Magna Carta, Rome (including the teachings of Christ), and ancient Greece (among many other moral influences).
__________________
Ancient Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8 2013, 02:37 AM   #56
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

I suppose you agreed with John Calhoun's speech citing that slavery was morally acceptable and a fundamental good for the United States as well.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8 2013, 03:04 AM   #57
Ancient Mariner
Rear Admiral
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Location: Great Pumpkin, is that you?
View Ancient Mariner's Twitter Profile
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

^ To whom (or rather to which argument) is this comment directed?
__________________
Ancient Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8 2013, 03:05 AM   #58
Elvira
Vice Admiral
 
Elvira's Avatar
 
Location: t'girl
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
The same way Cerberus isn't a part of the System's Alliance. they may use resources from it but they don't answer to it. Which makes them a rouge terrorist group.
But the people who make up S31, are from within the Federation. Sloan is a human, iirc from Earth. Why would the hundred of billions of people from the many Member worlds have to "answer to" the Federation?

You make the Federation sound like a police state.

__________________
.
no mere mortal can resist the evil of the thriller
Elvira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8 2013, 08:15 AM   #59
Danger Ace
Commander
 
Danger Ace's Avatar
 
Location: California
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

randomfan86 wrote: View Post
I think Section 31 often gets too much crap from fans, even though the overwhelming evidence in both from TV and the books show they have done a lot of good work for the Federation.
Please note: I respectfully do not include novels in my opinion as I, by choice, do not count them as canon.

I agree. I thought DS9's introduction of Section 31 was brilliant and fixed a lot of dipshit things incorporated into The Next Generation. The dovish unliteralism was inane and totally unrealistic - it wasn't even a noble ideal.

Then again I would have demoted Picard for not weaponizing Hugh and wholeheartedly agreed with the infecting of The Changlings with a genocidal virus.

I mean, I loved "Star Trek" since the start and loved the future it suggested. None of which included a "peace at all costs and sacrifices" ideology. You strove for peace. A peace built upon a foundation of mutual benefit and respect - not one based on fear or paid for by a loss of self-determination.

BTW, where did that come from? What moron came-up with the Federation signing a treaty that allowed there self-declared antagonists to develope stealth technology unrestricted while they could not even research ways by which to detect such things? How is that anything but stoopid! And what Next Gen imbecile thought the pinnacle of a civilization's moral developement lay in their ability to talk themselves into laying down and excepting extinction?

I start off every episode of DS9 with a moment of silent praise for RDM and company for giving us Section 31.
__________________
Yours Truly,
Vic Falcone
Danger Ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8 2013, 08:31 AM   #60
M.A.C.O.
Fleet Captain
 
M.A.C.O.'s Avatar
 
Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

My biggest gripe about Section 31 when i was watching DS9 was it was completely counter to Roddenberry's vision of the future. While I was not opposed to an organization like Section 31 exisiting. The Romulans have the black ops Tal Shiar, and the Romulan military, civillians and other governments know about them. The Obsidian Order was black ops for the Cardassians, and again other governments knew about them. No one outside select few Star Fleet officers who have had interactions with Section 31 and possibly the entire Star Fleet Admiralty and Star Fleet Command knowsabout Section 31. Why so secretive? The fact that the Star Fleet Command would not confirm nor deny it's existence in DS9 'Inquisition' is very telling. While at the time I dismissed the line as writers trying to sound cool using a military phrase usually reserved for secrets and kills, but now after watching Enterprise and comparing Harris' and Sloan's actions i think I understand what Section 31 is.

Section 31 is an organization that acts to preserve and protect humanity. Not the Federation, but humanity. It's in the Earth Star Fleet charter in ENT, all Section 31 members are human we've seen, they are willing to take extreme actions such as genocide of an entire species to win a war, murder and extortion are not above them, and Star Fleet doesn't lift a finger to reprimand them for any of it.

I think fans would be more comfortable with Section 31 if there were public and not a cloak and dagger organization under Star Fleet. Star Fleet Command can say yes they exist but what they do is classified. Like the CIA and MI6. We know they infiltrate terrorist organizations, we know they use drones that kill the civilian populations of countries each occupy, and we know they lead assassinations against nuclear scientists in Iran and other countries. That's Section 31 in the Trekverse.
M.A.C.O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
section 31

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:09 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.