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Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

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Old April 5 2013, 12:50 PM   #301
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

DS9 will always be the toughest sell to networks. Heavy serialized shows have a very hard time getting decent ratings in rerun syndication. While DS9 might be a more richer experience for viewers it requires the most commitment to follow. But viewers tend to get fed up waiting every week for the next episode, while episodes of TOS or TNG can be seen entirely out of order with no problems. Trek was born to be episodic, the reruns of TOS was what kept the franchise alive for decades until we got new material.

I can see CBS doing VOY before DS9.
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Old April 5 2013, 12:57 PM   #302
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

Start Wreck wrote: View Post
ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
ENTERPRISE S1 set arrived yesterday, and I'm slowly picking my through it. One thing I noticed straight away, which won't make any difference to anyone in the US, but makes this worth reowning, is the different sounding audio. Because our SD TV system is PAL, everything film-based is sped up slightly. I doubt many in the UK even notice. More and more do, as they watch films on a format capable of 24 frames per second.

Even "Faith of the Heart" sounds a bit more tolerable now it's deeper!
This was the first thing I noticed when I watched the TNG Blu-ray sampler disc last year. It was the first time I've ever heard any Star Trek show at the correct pitch. An unbelievable difference; I can't imagine how anyone wouldn't notice.

I have literally every single series on DVD, all PAL. That means I'll have to upgrade to Blu-ray all at once - no way can I stand changing pitch mid-series. Madness!

EDIT: It also means all our episodes are slightly shorter. We've been getting ripped off for years!
I switched between "Terra Nova" on DVD and Blu ray. In some respects, the perfect episode to choose for a comparison given beyond the first watch the story isn't up to much. So I can focus on technical stuff like the picture and sound quality. Both played on a Sony Blu ray, so the old edition is upscaled to try and compete with the new.

Oh dear god! Scott Bakula sounds hilarious going back to Region 2 DVD. Must be hellium in the ship's air filtration! Totally different. I'm going to have a problem going back to watching those!

The Blu ray picture improvements are more subtle but I am noticing more from time to time. Great detail and movement in the trees, during Reed's pursuit of a Novan. FX shot will probably glean more background stars in focus and sharper onscreen text. The framing now fills the overscan area with edges that were lost before. Where it had been blanked off at the sides previously and almost 15:9 at times. The different colour grading doesn't seem noticable and I suspect there isn't any that's been purposely done. This is how it's supposed to be seen and converting to NTSC and then PAL for us lot overseas, probably introduced different hues from each system.
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Old April 5 2013, 03:46 PM   #303
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

Dream wrote: View Post
DS9 will always be the toughest sell to networks. Heavy serialized shows have a very hard time getting decent ratings in rerun syndication. While DS9 might be a more richer experience for viewers it requires the most commitment to follow. But viewers tend to get fed up waiting every week for the next episode, while episodes of TOS or TNG can be seen entirely out of order with no problems. Trek was born to be episodic, the reruns of TOS was what kept the franchise alive for decades until we got new material.

I can see CBS doing VOY before DS9.
I disagree, VOY would be a bigger, more complicated and more expensive project at this point as it would require a lot more CGI input than DS9. Also DS9 is at least as popular as VOY if not more so. And a serialised show is more modern and can lure people in for longer more easily as people want to see the resolution of the story lines that they have already invested so much time in. Also DS9 isn't heavily serialised as you put it. Most of it's episodes are actually stand alone. In the end I would like to see both in HD. But I don't think DS9 compares unfavourably with VOY when it comes to finding a rationale for remastering.

In the end if they come to the conclusion they can make a decent profit then they will do it. TNG remastered is apparently doing better then they had ever hoped it would. So there must be a margin there for the less popular shows DS9 and VOY. Also with the expertise they gainged from remastering TNG and reduced costs from improved technology etc. remasterting these two shows might be cheaper than TNG in the end making it even more likely it will happen.
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Old April 6 2013, 11:11 PM   #304
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

There might have been some potential worth including one of the earliest "open-matte" 4:3 episodes as an extra.

Even as the standard definition broadcast master from 2001... if necessary.

"Broken Bow" 2002 Sky One premiere broadcast


"Broken Bow" 2005 DVD release

I'm unable to capture the same shot from the Blu ray edition, but would've done so if I could. And obviously the top picture, is actually below SD... as a VHS TV recording ripped to DVD.

During the 3-part documentary, director James L. Conway mentions having to keep his options open, because there was some hesitancy in going over to 16:9. As a result during the pilot, sometimes shots look like a cropped frame with close-ups that are closer than generally composed, as the series went on. This is noticable throughout the cornfield chase, and first scenes involving discussion of returning Klaang home.

That would explain the grainier image, if it had to be zoomed in.

It settles down once they've clearly committed to widescreen thinking. But the first episode(s) seem to have been designed to be seen, either way.

But as I say, if there's any space on a later season set... maybe a viable extras idea? To include "Broken Bow" with more visable frame? Got to be as good an idea as, two different versions of "The Cage" on TOS for instance?
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Old April 6 2013, 11:29 PM   #305
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

Jefferies wrote: View Post
Are you sure they only look at syndication revenues? From what I heard Season 1 of TNG in HD made its money back just from blu ray sales in the first few months. Also there is the money they make from people watching online through Netflix etc. Who sits down in front of broadcast TV these days anyway? The elderly thats who and they wouldn't watch Star Trek even if they were payed to do so. Therefore, I'm sure they take all types of possible revenue into account. I'm also sure they look ahead and have thought about how they will be selling this stuff in 5-10 years. Online watching will play an even greater role then.
Syndication is not the only source of revenue for the remastered episodes, but it is by far the biggest and most important. Home video has been continuously shrinking for at least five years. Obviously it is still a revenue source (the bonus features wouldn't exist, otherwise), but compared to syndication it is less important.

Streaming is growing in importance, but syndication is still more important (especially globally).
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Old April 7 2013, 12:16 AM   #306
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

Here's the Blu-ray shot for you (click to enlarge):

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Old April 7 2013, 01:26 AM   #307
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

^ Thanks!

Here's a frame comparison between the 4:3 and 16:9 "Broken Bow" presentations.






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Old April 7 2013, 02:05 AM   #308
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

Last night I watched In Conversation with Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, and it's definitely proving to be the highlight of this set. I found it hard to not to feel sympathy for them... addressing some of the criticisms, starting off with Enterprise but also several things like the death of Kirk & Data. I'm amazed Berman in particular agreed to this, as it must've been as uncomfortable to participate in, as it was for me to watch. Responding to Braga at times, put me in mind of a rabbit being caught in the headlamps of a car. That'll no doubt be extremely compelling viewing for many!

The very least I can say about the man who brought so much joy over those 18 years I grew up while Star Trek ever present on TV, is thank you. Too bad Enterprise didn't turn out exactly the way you guys planned... most of the ideas mentioned, along that whole road not taken, might've left the prequel show with a much better reputation... even if it had been cancelled sooner.

Just one thing though... there really was no such thing as a bad Manny Coto script! Yes. Even that one about the inventor of the transporter.

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Old April 7 2013, 02:42 AM   #309
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
During the 3-part documentary, director James L. Conway mentions having to keep his options open, because there was some hesitancy in going over to 16:9. As a result during the pilot, sometimes shots look like a cropped frame with close-ups that are closer than generally composed, as the series went on. This is noticable throughout the cornfield chase, and first scenes involving discussion of returning Klaang home.

That would explain the grainier image, if it had to be zoomed in.
Which one are you saying is grainier? The 16:9 one uses a wider part of the film frame, so it's "zoomed out" effectively. And I wouldn't use the 4:3 version as any sort of image quality test, since it's a conversion from the NTSC version...
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Old April 7 2013, 02:54 AM   #310
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

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Which one are you saying is grainier? The 16:9 one uses a wider part of the film frame, so it's "zoomed out" effectively. And I wouldn't use the 4:3 version as any sort of image quality test, since it's a conversion from the NTSC version...
Grainer than other episodes in the season. Not as compared to the screencaps from a domestic source obviously. 1990s era video recording equipment tends to lose information and that's what would've still been in operation, when I taped that off British satellite channel, Sky One in 2002. That likely accounts for missing frame at the sides, probably present on broadcast. But nevertheless, even having said that, there is evidence of more above and below the widescreen frame.

If you cropped a remastered TNG episode to fill the 16:9 screen, as happened with "Broken Bow", in order to fill the frame... the grain would be enlarged, along with everything else inside the area being zoomed into.

4:3 would involve zooming out to show the whole frame, in this particular case.
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Old April 7 2013, 08:05 PM   #311
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
Grainer than other episodes in the season.
ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
If you cropped a remastered TNG episode to fill the 16:9 screen, as happened with "Broken Bow", in order to fill the frame... the grain would be enlarged, along with everything else inside the area being zoomed into.
My understanding is that the standard practice in TV isn't to use anamorphic lenses. That means that you shouldn't see a noticeable difference in grain from "Broken Bow" compared to the rest of the season - even when they knew they were shooting for 16:9, that image would have been extracted from the 4:3 frame, same as "Broken Bow" was.
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Old April 7 2013, 09:37 PM   #312
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

ATimson wrote: View Post
My understanding is that the standard practice in TV isn't to use anamorphic lenses. That means that you shouldn't see a noticeable difference in grain from "Broken Bow" compared to the rest of the season - even when they knew they were shooting for 16:9, that image would have been extracted from the 4:3 frame, same as "Broken Bow" was.
If that's true, then I'd suggest there must've been a much tighter 16:9 frame extracted than they settled into as the series progressed.

It must just be me then. Having focused on the extras, I'm ploughing through the episodes more slowly and besides the Pilot, have only had time to watch "Fight or Flight" and a random viewing of "Terra Nova" which wasn't as noisy. I know it's absolutely a creative decision, to overexpose the picture during scenes with Young Archer and his Father, pumping up the brightness to give it an almost sepia tone and making the grain the worse it can possibly get.

It's a dull subject but if it were possible to make a case for including the extra option of viewing an alternative 4:3 master for "Broken Bow" in particular (if it even still exists), it might be worthwhile to see the Director's initially composed shots.

A bit like sometimes, how you'd get two versions of films like The Searchers or Touch of Evil included, because they were either planned to be seen or exhibited in different aspect ratios.

Originally posted by Lee R over at Roobarb's Forum

Many shots show a preference for taking the 16:9 matte higher in the frame.


Some scenes, like this effects shot, are equally pleasing to the eye in either ratio.


Others would appear clearly composed for 16:9. Here the open matte 4:3 version has just empty space to the top and bottom of the frame. Note that the credits have been created separately for both versions.


Interestingly, other shots have a much more pleasing composition at 4:3 with the widescreen version looking a little cramped here.
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Old April 9 2013, 05:17 AM   #313
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

The highdef digest review
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/4036/enterprise_s1.html
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Old April 11 2013, 12:42 AM   #314
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

http://trekcore.com/blog/2013/04/ent...filming-today/



YES! Jeffrey Combs stopped by for a surprise visit too! [does a happy dance]
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Old April 11 2013, 03:29 AM   #315
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Re: ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

Fantastic! Theyre ready to film season 5!!
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