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Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 6 2013, 09:08 AM   #391
Oso Blanco
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Has anyone ever had the thought that maybe Harrison might be a Phaedan in disguise?
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Old April 6 2013, 09:23 AM   #392
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

I don't think I've heard that one so far.
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Old April 6 2013, 03:47 PM   #393
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
He's spent 20 years fighting a war
Which he had no right to get involved in.

trying to protect those poor Phaedans from being slaughtered when he could have hidden behind the PD and stayed on Enterprise drinking coffee, working his way to Admiral.
Stealing Enterprise and making that deal seems to be his last & only hope to win.
That's his problem. Stealing a Starfleet vessel is theft. Breaking the Prime Directive is a gross violation of Federation law.
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Old April 6 2013, 04:30 PM   #394
Nerys Myk
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
He's spent 20 years fighting a war
Which he had no right to get involved in.

trying to protect those poor Phaedans from being slaughtered when he could have hidden behind the PD and stayed on Enterprise drinking coffee, working his way to Admiral.
Stealing Enterprise and making that deal seems to be his last & only hope to win.
That's his problem. Stealing a Starfleet vessel is theft. Breaking the Prime Directive is a gross violation of Federation law.
Or what on the Enterprise they call "Thursday".
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Old April 6 2013, 04:39 PM   #395
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

In case anyone's thinking of ST III: Kirk only stole the Enterprise - an EMPTY Enterprise, not one with a full crew aboard, unlike April's actions - to help Spock. And he was fully prepared to face the consequences of his actions afterward. Kirk did not violate the Prime Directive and intervene in anything like April did at Phaedus.

What April did there is basically the same as Captain Tracey's actions at Omega IV, and April is no better than Tracey, really.
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Old April 6 2013, 04:55 PM   #396
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
What April did there is basically the same as Captain Tracey's actions at Omega IV, and April is no better than Tracey, really.
except Tracy was doing it for his own greed, while April was trying to stop a genocide.
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Old April 6 2013, 05:04 PM   #397
Nerys Myk
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Spock stole the Enterprise in the Menagerie and violated General Order 4.

In TOS the Enterprise seems to get hijacked at least three time per season.

Kirk regularly intervenes in alien culture, Beta Three, Vaal's World and Neural come to mind.
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Old April 6 2013, 05:04 PM   #398
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Mr. Laser Beam, I don't think anyone's saying April's actions are in the right -- just that "evil" is too simplistic a word for his motivations. People often do the wrong things for what they believe to be the right reasons.
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Old April 6 2013, 05:42 PM   #399
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

^ But just because they BELIEVE it's the right reasons doesn't mean they actually are.
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Old April 6 2013, 07:52 PM   #400
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Christopher wrote: View Post
People often do the wrong things for what they believe to be the right reasons.
And it should then be no surprise that this is the theme of STID, and Harrison's motivations.
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Old April 6 2013, 09:36 PM   #401
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Kirk regularly intervenes in alien culture, Beta Three, Vaal's World and Neural come to mind.
Beta III - The Prime Directive applies mainly to developing cultures. Thanks to Landru, the culture on Beta III was stagnant and the people were in a brainwashed state, incapable of moving forward without help. To just leave them there would have been cruel.

Vaal's World - Same deal, except the natives were being oppressed by a machine created from another species - their culture had already been screwed over.

Neural - this is the example closest to Countdown to Darkness. But again, the Prime Directive had already been violated - in this case, by the Klingons. Kirk simply put the warring cultures back on even ground. (I can only assume in April's case he didn't learn of the Klingons' involvement in the Phaedan civil war until after he had abandoned the Enterprise, otherwise he'd have been justified in Starfleet's eyes to take action. If he'd interfered first, and then the Klingons stepped in - well, he's still in the wrong.)

In each of the three cases cited, Kirk had ample reason to step in - these were not normally developing cultures.

April may not have started out evil, but he unquestionably crossed the line in seizing the Enterprise and her crew and offering them to one of the Federation's mortal enemies. Never mind the Prime Directive, that's treason with a capitol T.
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Old April 6 2013, 09:46 PM   #402
Nerys Myk
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Nightowl1701 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Kirk regularly intervenes in alien culture, Beta Three, Vaal's World and Neural come to mind.
Beta III - The Prime Directive applies mainly to developing cultures. Thanks to Landru, the culture on Beta III was stagnant and the people were in a brainwashed state, incapable of moving forward without help. To just leave them there would have been cruel.

Vaal's World - Same deal, except the natives were being oppressed by a machine created from another species - their culture had already been screwed over.

Neural - this is the example closest to Countdown to Darkness. But again, the Prime Directive had already been violated - in this case, by the Klingons. Kirk simply put the warring cultures back on even ground. (I can only assume in April's case he didn't learn of the Klingons' involvement in the Phaedan civil war until after he had abandoned the Enterprise, otherwise he'd have been justified in Starfleet's eyes to take action. If he'd interfered first, and then the Klingons stepped in - well, he's still in the wrong.)

In each of the three cases cited, Kirk had ample reason to step in - these were not normally developing cultures.

April may not have started out evil, but he unquestionably crossed the line in seizing the Enterprise and her crew and offering them to one of the Federation's mortal enemies. Never mind the Prime Directive, that's treason with a capitol T.
Perhaps not to the UFP standard of development and I'm not saying Kirk violated the PD in those cases, just that he meddled. Not sure how or if the PD applies to stagnate or oppressed cultures. Where is the line drawn?
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Old April 6 2013, 10:12 PM   #403
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Off the top of my head, I can think of four outright violations of the Prime Directive in TOS. One may surprise folks:
1. John Gill in "Patterns of Force".
2. Ronald Tracey in "The Omega Glory".
3. R.M. Merik in "Bread and Circuses".
4. Jim Kirk in "Miri".

I think the only time Kirk actually broke the PD was in "Miri", when McCoy's antitidote to the virus was not only given to the Enterprise crewmembers, but to the children. Strictly speaking, the children shouldn't have been treated. It would've made for an interesting debate within the episode, but I don't think any writers had created the PD, yet.

It can be argued April isn't violating the PD in this case if the Klingons were there first. Once the genie is out of the bottle, how can the PD really apply? However, that doesn't mean April can't be committing other criminal acts in carrying out his cause.
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Old April 6 2013, 10:31 PM   #404
M'Sharak
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Franklin wrote: View Post
Off the top of my head, I can think of four outright violations of the Prime Directive in TOS. One may surprise folks:
1. John Gill in "Patterns of Force".
2. Ronald Tracey in "The Omega Glory".
3. R.M. Merik in "Bread and Circuses".
4. Jim Kirk in "Miri".

...
Does Merik count, though? He's not Starfleet, and thus (one would assume) not bound by Starfleet directives.
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Old April 6 2013, 10:36 PM   #405
Franklin
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Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
Off the top of my head, I can think of four outright violations of the Prime Directive in TOS. One may surprise folks:
1. John Gill in "Patterns of Force".
2. Ronald Tracey in "The Omega Glory".
3. R.M. Merik in "Bread and Circuses".
4. Jim Kirk in "Miri".

...
Does Merik count, though? He's not Starfleet, and thus (one would assume) not bound by Starfleet directives.
May not. I forgot he wasn't Starfleet. Come to think of it, it'd be odd if there wasn't a "civilian" version of the directive, though, wouldn't it? Was such a civilian version ever brought up in any TV incarnation of Trek?
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