RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,940
Posts: 5,479,071
Members: 25,056
Currently online: 474
Newest member: JeremiahJT

TrekToday headlines

Trek Shirt And Hoodie
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

A Klingon Christmas Carol’s Last Season
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

Attack Wing Wave 10 Expansion Pack
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Trek Actors In War Of The Worlds Fundraiser
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Star Trek: The Next Generation Gag Reel Tease
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Shatner In Haven
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 6 2013, 01:22 PM   #46
xortex
Commodore
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

Dukhat wrote: View Post
^Nonsense. All a new Trek show needs to survive is to be popular with CBS's target audience. None of what you wrote has any bearing on that.

That would be wonderful if it wasn't impossible, so which one is more nonsensical? The name Star Trek to them is meaningless. It has to be reinvented as something they are familiar with that was successful on tv and so it should have a different approach and a revamped premise that is more specific than boldly going nowhere. It has to have a hook like any great song. A sci-fi tv show has to be superimposed over Trek to make it work for them else it's more of the same craziness that failed before.
xortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6 2013, 02:01 PM   #47
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

The last thing any Trekker would want is a new Trek series on CBS itself (or on any other broadcast network for that matter). Not only would it be gone in less than a season, it'd be the last Trek series for a very long time afterward, IMO.

But then, the odds of it being on CBS itself are likely somewhere between slim and zero anyway...
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6 2013, 07:20 PM   #48
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

Dukhat wrote: View Post
^Nonsense. All a new Trek show needs to survive is to be popular with CBS's target audience. None of what you wrote has any bearing on that.
Is that "all"? How could they manage that? Here's the puzzle:

CBS's target audience watches procedurals, mass-market comedy and reality TV. They show little interest in sci fi of any sort, much less the off-putting type of sci fi that space opera represents. The last sci fi series of any type on CBS was Jericho. If that can't survive, then how can Star Trek?

Another key factor: CBS doesn't greenlight as many new shows as the other networks because it doesn't have to. It has a deep bench of shows that are successful year after year. So that means fewer slots for any show, and a tougher road for any new pilot, even the ones that are procedurals or mass market sitcoms.

Here's what I mean: look at all the CBS series that have been renewed. Go look at the cancellation bear lists for the other networks to see just how healthy CBS really is.

Vegas a rare failure for them, going to be cancelled. That was a pretty minor departure from the CBS formula - a cop show, just set in the 60s instead of modern day. If the CBS audience will reject that, that's not a good sign for their ability to accept something radically different.

Vegas is getting 7.6M viewers now (after debuting last fall at twice that). Can you envision any space opera series getting even that large of an audience on any network or cable channel? I can't. Factoring in all the people who won't watch green people on their TV sets under any circumstances, all the competition shows face nowadays, and piracy, I'd say 3-4M would be a healthy number. Twice that level isn't survival level on CBS.

Star Trek and CBS don't fit, at least not without some kind of creative approach like they're taking with Under the Dome. If NBC owned the rights, then maybe broadcast would still be a possibility, simply due to NBC's sheer desperation, but CBS is not desperate enough to waste a prime timeslot on a show that they know won't deliver the ratings they expect.

And I wouldn't hold out much hope for syndication being a factor. The syndication market has changed greatly since the days of TNG. The global audience for Star Trek is definitely one of its strong suits, and Abrams' movies are really helping in that regards, but how to capitalize on that audience in today's environment is another thing entirely.

One day, the changes we're seeing in TV distribution will cut out the middle men and make reaching a worldwide audience a wonderfully efficient thing, making expensive niche shows more viable (because of the sheer number of the potential audience and the cheapness of reaching them) but that's still in the future.

Star Trek is also a bad fit for the CW (unless its changed in ways we don't want to contemplate) and Showtime (a name brand associated with free TV is a bad fit for premium cable). That gives Star Trek nowhere to live in the CBS ecosystem.

The way out of this is for someone with real clout to champion a series and cut through all the negatives that are working against it, and that means Roberto Orci - associated with recent franchise success. And Les Moonves needs to be willing to take a real leap of faith.

That's where CBS's secure position might help - they are secure enough now that they can afford to take risks that will point the way forward, when their current audience finally ages right out of that 18-49 demo and CBS faces the same armegeddon their competitors face now.
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 6 2013, 07:36 PM   #49
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
And I wouldn't hold out much hope for syndication being a factor. The syndication market has changed greatly since the days of TNG.
Not really, it's just gone back to the way it was before TNG--dominated by re-runs from existing shows as well as daytime fare. There really isn't a necessity for first-run dramas due to the influx of shows airing on cable (it won't be too long before we'll see re-runs of current shows like The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones popping up in syndication).

But a new Trek series would have a better chance in being sold in syndication than something new no one's ever heard of before due to name recognition alone.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7 2013, 12:33 AM   #50
Dukhat
Commodore
 
Dukhat's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

xortex wrote: View Post
The name Star Trek to them is meaningless. It has to be reinvented as something they are familiar with that was successful on tv and so it should have a different approach and a revamped premise that is more specific than boldly going nowhere. It has to have a hook like any great song. A sci-fi tv show has to be superimposed over Trek to make it work for them else it's more of the same craziness that failed before.
It doesn't have to be "re-invented," and it doesn't have to rely on heavy sci-fi overtones. TOS didn't rely on that, and neither did Abrams's movie. It relied on a likeable cast that the audience could relate to, and an interesting story.

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
The last thing any Trekker would want is a new Trek series on CBS itself (or on any other broadcast network for that matter). Not only would it be gone in less than a season, it'd be the last Trek series for a very long time afterward, IMO.

But then, the odds of it being on CBS itself are likely somewhere between slim and zero anyway...
While I agree that a new show probably wouldn't be on CBS, I don't agree that if it were, it would die the quick death you think it would. Again, it's all in how it's presented to the audience.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
CBS's target audience watches procedurals, mass-market comedy and reality TV. They show little interest in sci fi of any sort, much less the off-putting type of sci fi that space opera represents. The last sci fi series of any type on CBS was Jericho. If that can't survive, then how can Star Trek?
I said that that's what a new Trek show needs. I didn't say that CBS was going to produce one irregardless of my opinion. However, comparing Jericho to a new Trek series is like comparing apples to oranges. Don't assume that Trek has no future just because a completely unrelated sci-fi show wasn't popular.
__________________
“Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.”
– Benjamin Franklin
Dukhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7 2013, 01:02 AM   #51
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

Dukhat wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
The last thing any Trekker would want is a new Trek series on CBS itself (or on any other broadcast network for that matter). Not only would it be gone in less than a season, it'd be the last Trek series for a very long time afterward, IMO.

But then, the odds of it being on CBS itself are likely somewhere between slim and zero anyway...
While I agree that a new show probably wouldn't be on CBS, I don't agree that if it were, it would die the quick death you think it would. Again, it's all in how it's presented to the audience.
That's really overestimating Trek's popularity. It doesn't really matter how it's presented to the audience if the audience isn't big enough to justify its price tag on CBS. The ideal Trek show there would have to be something done on the budget of the shows already there and appeals to far more than just Trekkies.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7 2013, 06:45 PM   #52
Dukhat
Commodore
 
Dukhat's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It doesn't really matter how it's presented to the audience if the audience isn't big enough to justify its price tag on CBS.
Well, the audience for Abrams's last film was phenomenal for a Star Trek production, so that's proof there's a large audience for it if it's done correctly.
__________________
“Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.”
– Benjamin Franklin
Dukhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7 2013, 10:13 PM   #53
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

That's proof there's an audience for Star Trek as a big-budget tentpole movie. That's an entirely different business from TV.

Notice how Abrams is shoehorning the franchise into the tentpole movie mold - heavy on visuals and action, not so heavy on characterization or dialogue or worrying about niceties of continuity that the mass audience wouldn't appreciate anyway.

That's what would happen to a Star Trek TV show, except of course the rules would be all different. It would require more continuity, more focus on character and complex plotting, no concern for the old structures of broadcast TV (episodic format, sanitized for the FCC).

In both cases, we're seeing a break with the past that is mandated by business realities. In the case of TV, the break will be bigger.

The original-series syndication market is a very unlikely home for Star Trek. Shows made for syndication tend to be reality TV and game shows, Wheel of Fortune and Judge Judy.

Star Trek
would be a much better fit with Amazon or Netflix. I could see them being motivated to spend the money required to create a series because they are trying to establish themselves for the future. Even if they weren't guaranteed a profit right now, it's an investment. Syndication isn't an investment, it's opportunistic so what's the motive to do anything but the cheapest possible show?
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7 2013, 10:22 PM   #54
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

Dukhat wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It doesn't really matter how it's presented to the audience if the audience isn't big enough to justify its price tag on CBS.
Well, the audience for Abrams's last film was phenomenal for a Star Trek production, so that's proof there's a large audience for it if it's done correctly.
Those are two entirely separate things. Aside from one being released only once every few years and the other a weekly series, movie box office results do not translate into TV ratings. If it did, then Trek would still be on the air today.
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
The original-series syndication market is a very unlikely home for Star Trek. Shows made for syndication tend to be reality TV and game shows, Wheel of Fortune and Judge Judy.
Pretty much how things were in 1986.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7 2013, 10:40 PM   #55
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

It's a five-hundred channel universe and everyone is desperate for programming. I imagine if there's a new Trek series, it'll show up where people least expect it.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7 2013, 11:28 PM   #56
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

What's the old saying--"500 channels and there's still nothing on?"
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30 2013, 05:17 PM   #57
CDR6
Lieutenant Commander
 
CDR6's Avatar
 
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if what you say is anywhere true (and it might be)...WTF did CBS buy Star for in the first place. (leaves me scratching my head)

Regards,
Chuck
__________________
We're Star Trek fans, weird is just part of the job.
CDR6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30 2013, 05:21 PM   #58
CDR6
Lieutenant Commander
 
CDR6's Avatar
 
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if what you all say is anywhere true (and it might be)...WTF did CBS buy Star Trek for in the first place. (leaves me scratching my head)

Regards,
Chuck
__________________
We're Star Trek fans, weird is just part of the job.
CDR6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30 2013, 05:45 PM   #59
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

CDR6 wrote: View Post
Not to put too fine a point on it, but if what you all say is anywhere true (and it might be)...WTF did CBS buy Star Trek for in the first place. (leaves me scratching my head)
They didn't buy it, it was given to them when CBS and Viacom split up in 2006 and divided Paramount between them. CBS got the television division (which included ownership of Trek), while Viacom retained the movie division.

As the owner of Trek, CBS is well within their rights to use the property in whatever manner they see fit, including their present manner as something they can license out to others (such as Paramount) and make money that way without having to invest millions into a new TV series.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30 2013, 08:05 PM   #60
CDR6
Lieutenant Commander
 
CDR6's Avatar
 
Re: 10 Things a New Trek Series Must Have

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
CDR6 wrote: View Post
Not to put too fine a point on it, but if what you all say is anywhere true (and it might be)...WTF did CBS buy Star Trek for in the first place. (leaves me scratching my head)
They didn't buy it, it was given to them when CBS and Viacom split up in 2006 and divided Paramount between them. CBS got the television division (which included ownership of Trek), while Viacom retained the movie division.

As the owner of Trek, CBS is well within their rights to use the property in whatever manner they see fit, including their present manner as something they can license out to others (such as Paramount) and make money that way without having to invest millions into a new TV series.
Sounds good... (part of the deal I guess) However, they must see something in the franchise worth hanging on to. I wonder if anybody has offered to buy the "rights" to Star Trek from them?

Regards,
Chuck
__________________
We're Star Trek fans, weird is just part of the job.
CDR6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.