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Old March 25 2013, 08:26 PM   #31
SonicRanger
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

The DY cooning tower as warp ring connector is brilliant.
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Old March 26 2013, 02:41 AM   #32
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

Update. Navigatonal deflector housing in place as well as lower support strut.




I'm also giving some thought to scale---how big this will eventually be. I'm trying to consider what sort of things will be required. If it's meant to survey Class M worlds and even land on them then a hangar bay will be required for the one landing craft. I'm thinking of putting the hangar bay on the underside of the forward section towards the bow. The nav-deflector housing also holds many of the ship's main sensor systems as does the end of the nose section of the ship. The ship's support facilities are mostly in the support section which is mid ship between the upper and lower ring support struts. Aft of that is main engineering and the four large sublight impulse engines. I haven't given it a lot of thought, but I have this idea that the serrated dark area of the upper support strut might also be some sort of hydrogen attractor/collector...if that even makes any sense.

I didn't really think about it before, but now it does strike me how the ship looks like a large heavy-lifting rocket laid on its side and then dressed up with added fixtures. In that context it doesn't look inconsistent with 21st century tech since I've seen contemporary rockets with that kind of shape albeit more elongated.
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Old March 26 2013, 11:42 PM   #33
Sarvek
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

I agree with your thinking. The ship does need a hangar for a shuttle because transporters were not in use then. The strut holding the ring as a hydrogen collector makes a great deal of sense, because I always wonder how they would collect hydrogen for the propulsion of the ring. You are on the right track and in line with my thinking of the Valiant. My Valiant is different than yours, but has similar necessities as yours. It is simialar in design to the Valiant designed and built by Greg Jein and to that of the Conestoga. Great work so far. Good thought processes.
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Old March 31 2013, 01:05 AM   #34
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

Well hang on to your hats because I've reconsidered the design to make it somewhat more elemental. Essentially I've taken the Friede (from 1929's Woman In The Moon), laid it on its side and stretched the nose a bit. Then I'm simplifying the ring arrangement and making a few other tweaks. I'm still keeping the thicker upper strut and thinner lower strut as well as the navigational deflector pod. I've also gone to two large impulse nozzles stacked one atop the other instead of four. I want something more rudimentary looking for a design that is supposedly one of the very first generation of Earth's FTL starships. It still looks like a large albeit thick and somewhat stubby missile laying on its side, but a bit less elaborate in overall shape---more elemental. Then it's a matter of adding the right detail to dress it up.

I want to do this right, but I don't want to spend too much time on it because I'd like to get back to my Flash Gordon rocketship model. I don't know if you've followed or seen that where like the TOS shuttlecraft I've actually worked out something of a coherent interior for the ship.
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Old April 3 2013, 03:16 AM   #35
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance



If you think you're looking at a missile in a sense you're not far from wrong.

I decided to try making my version of the Valiant more elemental. That meant trying to stay away from anything a bit too elaborate for the era (in my opinion). If, as I conjecture, fast relativistic ships were being used prior to the introduction of Cochrane's space warp then they might try to adapt the new development to existing hardware. It certainly would save some time and money initially rather than going for something wholly new from scratch.

What might a fast relativistic ship look like? To get 80-90% light or a bit better your ship would most likely be something of a projectile shape and not too far removed from the V2 rocket shapes of '40s and '50s era sic-fi or perhaps something roughly similar to contemporary missiles, ICBMs and heavy lifting or satellite launching rockets. And note that the (by now) decades old DY-100 ships were also reminiscent of a projectile shape (with add-ons).

And so if we can assume Cochrane's new space warp technology can be adapted to existing 21st century designs then that can be a starting point to envision what one of the first generation of FTL ships might look like. Hence the image posted above of the main section of my version of the Valiant.

Areas that had previously been devoted to extra cargo and fuel some of that could now be modified to refit the new FTL technology to the ship. The main section overall could conceivably have gotten a bit smaller (or shorter).

This is still essentially the same as my previous design except that I've devolved it a bit to make it look more of TOS' mid 21st century era. It will still be more elaborate than the DY-100, but then it has to be while not being too far removed from it.
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Old April 6 2013, 06:47 AM   #36
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

This design has finally been pushed further. It's still essentially similar to the previous effort, but I think this is more elemental as it should be. In terms of scale I'm thinking the main section is roughly equivalent to the Enterprise's secondary hull.



I decided to clean up the impulse engine section a bit because I wasn't completely happy with the first effort. Now that all the major elements are in place it's on to the detailing and colouring.
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Old April 6 2013, 02:15 PM   #37
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

If I may say so I rather like how this has come out. It has something of a retro look to it yet it also looks in keeping with the Alcubierre concept of a space warp ship. You can also see the idea of an early sci-fi rocketship in it. I think it manages to be retro while not looking particularly dated.

I want to add more detail, but not too much so to retain that elusive futuristic look (in my eyes) as well as a look that fits in with TOS' aesthetic style. I also had in mind Kara's ship from "Spock's Brain" which also something of a ogive projectile ship with add-ons. That and the Botany Bay convinced me this basic concept could fit in TOS.

This is part of what bugs me about the contempory Trek approach to pre TOS eras. They can't get into the right mindset because they're so convinced anything with a hint of retro to it can't work for contemporary audiences.
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Old April 6 2013, 09:41 PM   #38
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

Have you given up your other project for this one? I was really looking forward to the Phantom Cruiser.
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Old April 6 2013, 10:50 PM   #39
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

Potemkin_Prod wrote: View Post
Have you given up your other project for this one? I was really looking forward to the Phantom Cruiser.
No. aridas' musings just got me going about this. I haven't far to go with this one and then I'll be going back to the other project.
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Old April 7 2013, 02:23 AM   #40
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

Okay, cool!
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Old April 9 2013, 01:58 AM   #41
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance



Some small progress. I wasn't happy with the shape of the outer surface of the ring so I played with it and made it simpler to keep it more in keeping with my overall idea. You can also see some detail I've added to the inside surface of the ring on both the port and starboard sides. My thinking behind the form of that particular detail was vague but I wanted some visual connection with the similar detail on the main hull. Whereas the part on the main hull is generally convex I made the corresponding detail on the inside of the ring concave. It vaguely looks like they could actually fit together (which they can't physically) but perhaps there is some form of energy transfer between them---somewhat analogous to the idea GR had that he considered trying to show some manner of energy activity between the nacelles. The other detail I've added so far is a small component on the upper side of the bow. I thought of this as the navigational laser emitters. Whatever the navigational deflector can't sweep aside the lasers automatically fire to destroy it or if the object is too big then the ship will veer away while alerting the crew.

Other details I'm planning to add are a deep space telescope housing and a long range communications antenna as well as some bits and pieces to give the hull a bit more visual texture.
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Old April 9 2013, 02:41 AM   #42
Sarvek
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

She is really looking good. Are you also planning on adding a hangar bay? Your details really make a great deal of sense and the one that you will be adding also work well. Keep up the great work and I am looking foreward to more.
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Old April 13 2013, 12:31 AM   #43
Nightowl1701
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

At this early point - first generation warp drive and all - I don't know if the Valiant should even have a hangar bay. An airlock for EVA repair work and a docking port for when its' home, yeah, but I figure it would probably would be more like the Alexei Leonov from 2010 and have remote-controlled automated probes. This was a ship intended for survey and system fly-by work, staying in the general neighborhood around the solar system (at least until that magnetic space storm), and its crew was likely intended to spend all their time on the ship scanning and mapping rather than risk getting anyone stranded on an alien world. Time enough for planetside exploration once you've got the basics of interstellar travel down.
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Old April 13 2013, 01:16 AM   #44
Warped9
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

Nightowl1701 wrote: View Post
At this early point - first generation warp drive and all - I don't know if the Valiant should even have a hangar bay. An airlock for EVA repair work and a docking port for when its' home, yeah, but I figure it would probably would be more like the Alexei Leonov from 2010 and have remote-controlled automated probes. This was a ship intended for survey and system fly-by work, staying in the general neighborhood around the solar system (at least until that magnetic space storm), and its crew was likely intended to spend all their time on the ship scanning and mapping rather than risk getting anyone stranded on an alien world. Time enough for planetside exploration once you've got the basics of interstellar travel down.
I've been having second thoughts about the idea myself. Part of my doubt is based on a hangar bay resulting in needing a larger ship than I initially planned for. The ideas you're suggesting have merit.
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Old April 13 2013, 02:42 AM   #45
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Re: S.S. Valiant Appearance

This reminds me a bit of an old piece of Niven fanart I stumbled across years ago, for the Angel's Pencil from his Known Space series of novels.



Seems to be aiming for the same kind of idea you've got here, but with a few interesting twists like the lifting-body craft docked to the front.
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