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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 5 2013, 02:04 PM   #76
The Wormhole
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

chardman wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
chardman wrote: View Post
We do? For certain?

Has their been an actual confirmation of this from someone actually involved in the production?
Yes, multiple times. In fact, here's the word from Orci earlier this week.
Funny, because what Orci says doesn't actually confirm that Harrison is working for Starfleet at all. What he actually says of Harrison "Well he understands Starfleet because he was enlisted in a similar way." and "He too has gone through the [Starfleet training] process to some degree". That doesn't actually confirm him as being enlisted by Starfleet, nor working for Starfleet, let alone as one of their "top agents". In fact, it makes it sound as though he was enlisted in a group other than, but similar to, Starfleet, which utilizes many of the same processes, protocols and procedures. Maybe even going through some training with Starfleet personnel, even though they aren't Starfleet personnel.

You know, in much the same way that various law enforcement agencies other than the FBI send personnel to the FBI training facility at Quantico to take select parts of the same training that Bureau agents get, even though they're not actually Bureau agents themselves. They too go "through the process to some degree", and I'd imagine many of them were enlisted into their various agencies in a way that was very similar to how FBI agents are enlisted.

Our local SWAT guys trained at Quantico, but most certainly don't work for the FBI or any other federal agency.
In this thread we have Empire magazine revealing Harrison was an "ex-Starfleet employee" with a quote from Abrams saying Harrison was "within Starfleet and has turned against the organization."

The original plot sumary from Paramount (the infamous "detonate the fleet" one) says the Enterprise crew must stop an "unstoppable force of terror from within their own organization."

The only wiggle room we have here is that we don't know for sure Harrison is/was a Starfleet officer. But that's beside the point. Tom's original comment was that we know Harrison is working for Starfleet, and by now we have enough evidence to say that yes, he was indeed working for Starfleet in some way.
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Last edited by The Wormhole; April 5 2013 at 06:27 PM.
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Old April 5 2013, 02:37 PM   #77
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Psion wrote: View Post
To my surprise, Dennis and I weren't just civil with each other back then, we were practically friendly. In the bitterness of my older years, I've somehow re-written my memories to think we've always been snarky towards each other.
Funny, I'm not aware of having a problem with you. "Are we there yet?" does get kind of old.

trevanian wrote: View Post
Psion wrote: View Post

Didn't folks say the same thing before Nemesis was released?
It's a damn shame they didn't archive all those years of posts, because it sure would be fun to go back and see which folks made such a claim.
You wouldn't enjoy it, as the truth wouldn't service your bitter, petty fantasy.

Probably the same folks who defended Enterprise to the bitter end.
Loved Enterprise - it's one reason we alll have the opportunity to enjoy nuTrek now.

Probably a lot of monosyllabic posts.
No.
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Old April 5 2013, 03:36 PM   #78
trevanian
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post

trevanian wrote: View Post

Probably a lot of monosyllabic posts.
No.
'case closed.'

I'd normally never resort to quoting an ethically corrupt sellout like Gerald Posner, but that shoe really fits this one.

Yes.
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Old April 5 2013, 05:25 PM   #79
JarodRussell
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Psion wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Psion wrote: View Post

Well, neither do you, so your opinion here has as much weight as ours.
The difference being that my opinion is rarely "I know better than the folks who are successful at doing this." This place is full of armchair producers, writers, studio executives and public relations geniuses.

My opinion does "have as much weight" as yours - which is, exactly, none at all. If it were otherwise, we might all live where it's warm all year.
OH YEAH?

Well where might that be?
Dennis, your posts are always "I'm better than you because I share the opinion of the successful folks." in variations.
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Old April 5 2013, 06:19 PM   #80
M'Sharak
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Okay, kids - time to find a topic which isn't each other.

For example:

John Harrison: Starfleet employee, ex-Starfleet, or never Starfleet? Or something else altogether?
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Old April 5 2013, 06:54 PM   #81
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Okay, kids - time to find a topic which isn't each other.
Never a problem for me.

It seems likely now that Harrison is Khan, recruited as an operative by Starfleet.
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Old April 5 2013, 07:22 PM   #82
yenny
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

There is no reason why Khan can't be in STID. When the Klingons had the Narada, they could easily read the Narada history files, notice the story about Khan, look for his ship, brought him and his crew back to Qo'noS.

Once they have gotten him there. They would had woke him and his crew up.

The question would be. Is Harrison Klan, or is he and Khan two separate person? Most likely that Harrison and Khan are the same person, but two different people.
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Old April 5 2013, 10:00 PM   #83
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
In this thread we have Empire magazine revealing Harrison was an "ex-Starfleet employee" with a quote from Abrams saying Harrison was "within Starfleet and has turned against the organization."

The original plot sumary from Paramount (the infamous "detonate the fleet" one) says the Enterprise crew must stop an "unstoppable force of terror from within their own organization."

The only wiggle room we have here is that we don't know for sure Harrison is/was a Starfleet officer. But that's beside the point. Tom's original comment was that we know Harrison is working for Starfleet, and by now we have enough evidence to say that yes, he was indeed working for Starfleet in some way.
"Ex-Starfleet Employee" and "Working for Starfleet" would seem to be at least a tad contradictory.

As to the plot summary, they often utilize misleading hype and hyperbole in place of any kind of useful information. Like Rick Polito's now classic "Wizard of Oz" synopsis that read: "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first person she meets and then teams up with three strangers to kill again".
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Old April 5 2013, 11:05 PM   #84
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

I can't picture Khan working for Starfleet in any capacity.

My guess is that Harrison is one of Khan's people, pulled out of stasis early while Khan and the rest of them are still asleep in their chambers, being kept hidden away somewhere. Maybe he was in one of the chambers that failed in the prime universe before Enterprise found them, so he missed out on all that happened there. But in the alternate universe he was rescued, quickly escaped from his would-be masters, and is now wreaking havoc to find and wake up Khan and the others. So in that sense he is a new character, but also a canonical one. The Bad Robot crew gets to dive into Trek lore while still forging their own.

Or I could be completely wrong. Who knows. My butt will be in the seat regardless.
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Old April 6 2013, 02:43 AM   #85
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
I'm not putting this in spoiler code since it's just speculation and the thread title says "Spoiler" twice anyway. Just don't read on if for some odd reason you're in this thread despite trying to avoid spoilers.












Franklin wrote: View Post
It's from Shockya.com reported by Trekmovie.com at the link, below. Passes the sniff test or not? Discuss.

http://trekmovie.com/2013/04/02/new-...ported-online/
My suspicion that Cumberbatch might be Khan has hinged not only on the several allusions to TWoK in this film, but also to a couple of the original names for Khan in the early drafts of Space Seed:

In writer Carey Wilber's original treatment, the Khan character is a Nordic superman named Harold Erricsen. This evolved in the first draft, where the character first introduces himself as John Ericssen, but is later revealed to be Ragnar Thorwald, who was involved in "the First World Tyranny". (Star Trek Magazine issue 120, The Star Trek Compendium, pp. 57-58)

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Spac..._%28episode%29
John + Harold Erricsen becomes John Harrison. Also, he initially gives a false identity to conceal his infamous name, just as it's been speculated Harrison might be doing here.

Given Orci and Kurtzman's (especially Orci's) knowledge and referencing of Trek lore, and the fact that they would undoubtedly have researched Space Seed extensively while working on the script, that seems like something they might do to give the villain a name that's a hint but at the same time deniable and not completely obvious.

Also, we have the issue of Harrison's seemingly superhuman jumping and massive weapon wielding ability on the Klingon planet, his assertion that he has the ability to cure fatal diseases beyond the abilities of Federation medicine, and while a quest for vengeance is hardly unique to Khan, it's kind of the thing he's known for.

If I had to take a stab at a potential plot, I'd guess that due to Starfleet's enhanced technology and different priorities in the wake of the attack on the USS Kelvin 25 years in the past, the then Captain Marcus or someone else discovered the SS Botany Bay much earlier than it was found in the Prime Timeline, and after an attempt at seizing his ship, Khan and his followers were banished to Ceti Alpha V like before.

In this timeline, years later, Ceti Alpha VI was used by Carol Marcus as a test site for her proto-Genesis torpedo, and like in STIII, it failed and wound up destroying the planet. "The shock shifted the orbit of Ceti Alpha V and everything was laid wasted." This may be the desolate planet with the huge rock formations that Harrison is shown staring at in the trailer. Harrison is able to save many of his fellow Augments by having them go back into their cryogenics stasis pods again where they don't need food or water the planet can no longer provide while he goes off on his mission.

Now Admiral Marcus and the top brass consider it a blessing in disguise that Khan and his dangerous band of Augments probably have been killed off and neglect to send a rescue mission after them. This is what prompts Harrison to say that Starfleet's leaders have committed a terrible crime and to seek vengeance by going undercover and infiltrating Starfleet to destroy their facilities, attack their leadership, gain access to a ship(s), and possibly grab the new and improved Genesis Device, which like many horrible things is being developed with the best of intentions in order to terraform (vulcaform?) a new homeworld for the Vulcan refugees similar to Vulcan itself.

Khanberbatch will get a hold of a ship, start kicking ass until the Enterprise shows up, we'll have a bigger explosion-fest rehash of the Reliant vs. Enterprise fight, and both ships will be sent careening toward Earth, with Enterprise pulling out of it at the last moment when Kirk sacrifices himself (though probably non-fatally, just severely burned but healable) to restart the engines in a reverse of Spock's sacrifice in TWoK.

I'm sure that's totally wrong, but that's what I'm going for storywise for now.
And the ship we see crashing into SF is Khanissons ship?
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Old April 6 2013, 02:53 AM   #86
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Franklin wrote: View Post
I thought that desolate area was on Kronos. At least that's how it's captioned over at Trekmovie.com's shot-by-shot description of the trailer. Of course, they're probably guessing, too. The link is below, just scroll down to the picture in question.

http://trekmovie.com/2013/03/21/shot...ional-trailer/

I certainly hope Admiral Marcus isn't involved in this in some way as a bad guy. We've seen too many "bad officers" in Trek. Of course, he could be the person or one of the persons responsible for the "crime" Harrison says was committed (or course, the "crime" is probably a gray issue, too).
Looking at those pics made me consider something. In the picture of all the officers and captains, they are watching something on their screens. From what I can tell, It looks like the same thing.

Look at the latter pick of Kirk saying,"This could just be the beginning".

Whats the connection here?
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Old April 6 2013, 03:14 AM   #87
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Tom wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
chardman wrote: View Post
We do? For certain?

Has their been an actual confirmation of this from someone actually involved in the production?

I hope you're not basing that on Peter Weller's line in the trailer that refers to "one of our top agents" being responsible, because that's most likely referring to Noel Clarke's character, whom Harrison recruits in exchange for saving the life of the man's daughter.

If you're basing it on images of Cumberbatch wearing a partial Starfleet uniform... why? Didn't the original Khan also briefly wear one in "Space Seed", even though he most certainly wasn't working for Starfleet? Ditto, that non-Starfleet 20th Century Air Force pilot they had to beam aboard in "Tomorrow is Yesterday"? And the android Norman from "I, Mudd"?
I'll put my answer in spoilers, just in case, but --
That is correct, he works for Starfleet as an agent of some sort. he does not hide the fact that he is the one getting his 'vengeance' so to speak. The questions are, why does he work for Starfleet and how long. The why may be that he is forced to, or has been secret all along and needs to be in Starfleet for some reason that fits his plans. It does feel that someone(s) in Starfleet was trying to use him and it backfired on them. We have seen so many movies and shows where an organization had tried to control something or someone more powerful then they are only to have it backfire on them. I think his reasons (if Kahn) is that someone is holding his augment brothers captives (Starfleet or the Klingons) and he is seeking to free them or even avenge them if they died.

Starfleet could have even had Kahns memory's suppressed and created the persona of Harrison. Then Kahn starts to remember who is actually is and starts his vengeance. so many possibilities...
Died in the explosion we see of what apparently could be cryogenic chambers.
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Old April 6 2013, 05:57 AM   #88
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Rothschild wrote: View Post
Looking at those pics made me consider something. In the picture of all the officers and captains, they are watching something on their screens. From what I can tell, It looks like the same thing.

Look at the latter pick of Kirk saying,"This could just be the beginning".

Whats the connection here?
I just noticed something interesting. In that shot you mentioned there is some alien sitting on Marcus' right side!
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Old April 6 2013, 06:47 PM   #89
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

The shots of the crew have them very upset, So this: a. Means it is a beloved crew member giving his life, Or (and more likely) b. a redeemed Harrison, winning the trust and affection of the crew and then being very distraught over his sacrifice. I can absolutely see it. From all his menace, Cumberband Bendersnatch is a beloved actor. Him finding redemtion would make sense and the awudience I think woulld love to cheer for him. That would add to the emotional impact of his sacrifice. Just thinking like a screen writer here.
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Old April 6 2013, 07:50 PM   #90
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

edshrinker wrote: View Post
Cumberband Bendersnatch
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