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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

 
 
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Old April 4 2013, 08:09 PM   #181
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

I check every time in case of zombies, robots or even those things from Critters. Always be prepared for the least likely scenario, movies and shows taught me that and I've yet to live through a night of terror.
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Old April 4 2013, 08:13 PM   #182
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

In a story about total war there are going to be massive crimes on both sides. There's no getting away from that. We're supposed to be rooting for the humans because y'know we are humans. As a foil to the idea that the people we are rooting for are by definition 'the goodies' it was an act of genius to introduce the Pegasus and its charismatic captain. The first shock and awe at discovering another and much more modern Battlestar is gradually eroded by the gradual realisation that they have lost their humanity, whereas Galactica not only held onto theirs but managed to spread it out to cylons as well. It was a master stroke to introduce Cain and her crew.
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Old April 4 2013, 08:17 PM   #183
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
randomfan86 wrote: View Post
Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
It's because we've wasted over a trillion dollars in that war, killed or maimed too many of our soldiers and over a decade for a hellhole that no army in history has been able to control and never will.

We probably wouldn't have this problem if we were immortal robots, used nukes like bullets and thought we will doing the will of God to wipe them out instead of installing democracy.

The situations are as far apart as shit can get.
Your conclusion is based on the premise that the other side wouldn't also have advanced weapons which is false. Also, they are not immortal and can die if they wish to continue a fruitless fight from long distance.
Based on actually watching the show and not the fantasy inside my own head, both Colonial and Cylon forces seemed fairly evenly matched in terms of one to one firepower. Cylons were superior in terms of sheer numbers. There are two Battlestars remaining, both surviving by pure luck and possibly a Cylon trying to fight her own programming in Galactica's case. Boomer was supposed to destroy Galactica, but she stopped herself. The Cylon's plan was to kill every single human in the universe. Letting a single Battlestar go because they blew up a few Basestars isn't going to make them stop. The skinjobs and the Raiders resurrect if they get killed, making them immortal and also able to learn from their mistakes. Based on what was actually shown on the show, they were willing to deal with humans who resorted to suicide bombings. These bombings did not truly harm the Cylons, they created confusion that helped when the Galactica showed up. At that point the Cylons were just going to nuke the planet and kill anyone left. The only time they actually did damage to the Cylons was when they destroyed the Resurrection Ship. That's with two Battlestars and their Vipers. A single Battlestar randomly attacking Basestars is just running, based on what was actually shown if there are two or three Basestars, a Battlestar is nearly destroyed in minutes. Cain would have never been able to get near the Colonies due to it being crawling with Basestars at the time. They were only able to even go back using captured Cylon ships. The Pegasus would have jumped in, maybe take out a few Basestars before finally getting blown apart. Maybe in a way similar to how she actually went out, but in a less heroic and more suicidal way.
Kicker is destroying the resurrection ship might have actually HELPED Cavil gain more power. Think about it: He was preaching and raging about the evils of being trapped in a flesh body. Nuke the resurrection ship and now he's got a big ole "told ya' so" to shove in the face of his detractors. Hell, given that we only know the outcome of the Galactica and one basestar or renegade Cylons, how do we know that the Mechjobs didn't eventually reclaim their place as the leaders of the Cylone species.

Sure they had more than one resurrection ship (At least two, so Cain did piss all really), but that had to make a few of them sit up and go "Ohhhhhh shit, I could really die out here! You're right Cavil, jack me into a 'botbod."

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Personally I'm glad the fictional character who never existed is dead, especially the way she died.

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You race traitor! How dare you turn you ba...*sees Grace Park and Tricia Hefler* TEAM CYLON FUCK YEAH! I for one welcome our sexpot robo' overlords. By your command ladies.
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Old April 4 2013, 08:30 PM   #184
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

Cain is BSG's Governor, although less insane. A character who the audience can see has a point, but whose actions were so terrible that they serve as a warning at how far the actual heroes can go if the situation had been different. That's why Adama didn't see anything completely wrong with her actions given the situation. But Adama had the civilians to worry about and his son and the President to remind him of his humanity. Which goes to one of the main themes of the show about humanity having to be worthy of survival. Killing civilians and especially children isn't justified. If that's how we really are, we don't deserve to survive. Especially if you're slaughtering the next generation to do so. Adama protected the Fleet when he felt that he should go defend the Colonies, but knew that the survival of as many people as possible was key to mankind not going extinct. He was willing to sacrifice himself and Galactica to do so on several occasions. That's why he's the hero and Cain is the villain. Adama is humanity at its best.
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Old April 4 2013, 08:42 PM   #185
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
Adama had the civilians to worry about and his son and the President to remind him of his humanity. Which goes to one of the main themes of the show about humanity having to be worthy of survival.
A point explicitly stated by both Sharon and Adama during that three-episode Pegasus arc.
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Old April 4 2013, 08:54 PM   #186
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
Cain is BSG's Governor, although less insane. A character who the audience can see has a point, but whose actions were so terrible that they serve as a warning at how far the actual heroes can go if the situation had been different. That's why Adama didn't see anything completely wrong with her actions given the situation. But Adama had the civilians to worry about and his son and the President to remind him of his humanity. Which goes to one of the main themes of the show about humanity having to be worthy of survival. Killing civilians and especially children isn't justified. If that's how we really are, we don't deserve to survive. Especially if you're slaughtering the next generation to do so. Adama protected the Fleet when he felt that he should go defend the Colonies, but knew that the survival of as many people as possible was key to mankind not going extinct. He was willing to sacrifice himself and Galactica to do so on several occasions. That's why he's the hero and Cain is the villain. Adama is humanity at its best.
Another thing about Adama too, showing how much he's "grown past" his need to retake the colonies: New Caprica. He had two battlestars, one of them state of the Art, and a had the Civvies out of his way on the planet. He could have loaded up, hauled ass back to the colonies and picked up the fight anew, staged a real hit and run war, or jumped to the Cylon capital / started hitting key ships. But he decided it was better for the long term survival of the human race to keep the ships at New Caprica and guard the planet. He put humanity against a need for revenge.
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Old April 4 2013, 09:08 PM   #187
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
Cain is BSG's Governor, although less insane. A character who the audience can see has a point, but whose actions were so terrible that they serve as a warning at how far the actual heroes can go if the situation had been different. That's why Adama didn't see anything completely wrong with her actions given the situation. But Adama had the civilians to worry about and his son and the President to remind him of his humanity. Which goes to one of the main themes of the show about humanity having to be worthy of survival. Killing civilians and especially children isn't justified. If that's how we really are, we don't deserve to survive. Especially if you're slaughtering the next generation to do so. Adama protected the Fleet when he felt that he should go defend the Colonies, but knew that the survival of as many people as possible was key to mankind not going extinct. He was willing to sacrifice himself and Galactica to do so on several occasions. That's why he's the hero and Cain is the villain. Adama is humanity at its best.
Another thing about Adama too, showing how much he's "grown past" his need to retake the colonies: New Caprica. He had two battlestars, one of them state of the Art, and a had the Civvies out of his way on the planet. He could have loaded up, hauled ass back to the colonies and picked up the fight anew, staged a real hit and run war, or jumped to the Cylon capital / started hitting key ships. But he decided it was better for the long term survival of the human race to keep the ships at New Caprica and guard the planet. He put humanity against a need for revenge.
He risked his life just to save the people who were left behind on New Caprica. He could have left and gone with the remaining fleet at anytime. But he couldn't live with himself knowing that he left a major portion of the human race to the Cylons. If the Pegasus hadn't shown up, he would have died to save them.
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Old April 4 2013, 10:28 PM   #188
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
Cain is BSG's Governor, although less insane. A character who the audience can see has a point, but whose actions were so terrible that they serve as a warning at how far the actual heroes can go if the situation had been different. That's why Adama didn't see anything completely wrong with her actions given the situation. But Adama had the civilians to worry about and his son and the President to remind him of his humanity. Which goes to one of the main themes of the show about humanity having to be worthy of survival. Killing civilians and especially children isn't justified. If that's how we really are, we don't deserve to survive. Especially if you're slaughtering the next generation to do so. Adama protected the Fleet when he felt that he should go defend the Colonies, but knew that the survival of as many people as possible was key to mankind not going extinct. He was willing to sacrifice himself and Galactica to do so on several occasions. That's why he's the hero and Cain is the villain. Adama is humanity at its best.
Another thing about Adama too, showing how much he's "grown past" his need to retake the colonies: New Caprica. He had two battlestars, one of them state of the Art, and a had the Civvies out of his way on the planet. He could have loaded up, hauled ass back to the colonies and picked up the fight anew, staged a real hit and run war, or jumped to the Cylon capital / started hitting key ships. But he decided it was better for the long term survival of the human race to keep the ships at New Caprica and guard the planet. He put humanity against a need for revenge.
He risked his life just to save the people who were left behind on New Caprica. He could have left and gone with the remaining fleet at anytime. But he couldn't live with himself knowing that he left a major portion of the human race to the Cylons. If the Pegasus hadn't shown up, he would have died to save them.
Another thing he didn't do was gut the civvie fleet for parts once they had settled on New Caprica or start drafting people. Hell he even let members of the Galactica/Pegasus crews retire to the planet.
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Old April 4 2013, 10:32 PM   #189
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

But by failing to promote economic growth like some korean guy, adama demonstrates he is a weak leader with poor tactics.
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Old April 4 2013, 11:47 PM   #190
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

The fiend!

I bet he murders fish, too.
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Old April 4 2013, 11:53 PM   #191
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

the devious fishfrakker! he didn't even kill civilians for their own protection either!
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Old April 4 2013, 11:55 PM   #192
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

Adama was a known user of Roslin's New Caprican Wacky T-Baccy.
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Old April 5 2013, 12:24 AM   #193
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
Cain is BSG's Governor, although less insane. A character who the audience can see has a point, but whose actions were so terrible that they serve as a warning at how far the actual heroes can go if the situation had been different. That's why Adama didn't see anything completely wrong with her actions given the situation. But Adama had the civilians to worry about and his son and the President to remind him of his humanity. Which goes to one of the main themes of the show about humanity having to be worthy of survival. Killing civilians and especially children isn't justified. If that's how we really are, we don't deserve to survive. Especially if you're slaughtering the next generation to do so. Adama protected the Fleet when he felt that he should go defend the Colonies, but knew that the survival of as many people as possible was key to mankind not going extinct. He was willing to sacrifice himself and Galactica to do so on several occasions. That's why he's the hero and Cain is the villain. Adama is humanity at its best.
Another thing about Adama too, showing how much he's "grown past" his need to retake the colonies: New Caprica. He had two battlestars, one of them state of the Art, and a had the Civvies out of his way on the planet. He could have loaded up, hauled ass back to the colonies and picked up the fight anew, staged a real hit and run war, or jumped to the Cylon capital / started hitting key ships. But he decided it was better for the long term survival of the human race to keep the ships at New Caprica and guard the planet. He put humanity against a need for revenge.
There's probably a practicality aspect to it.

Sure Adama had two battlestars but both were half-crewed so probably couldn't really do much.

Where as Cain would have gone in all guns blazing with half a crew (she was already on the way. The battlestar wiki puts the crew of a Mercury class at 2500 and she lost 700 in the initial attack).
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Old April 5 2013, 01:57 AM   #194
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

randomfan86 wrote: View Post
Cool, you can have Mandella, Mother Theresa, and Ghandi leading your war. I'll take FDR, Lincoln and Cain..,you can keep the change.
[Locutus]
Sorry Randomfan, but I've been making some pointless references to boy bands because I wanted to dodge your points. Let me address what I think of FDR and Lincoln.

FDR and Lincoln are war criminals that should be punished. Lincoln immorally killed thousands of civilians by purposely destroying their food and homes. He was fighting a war? Screw that, and screw all the blacks he might have been thinking about. What about those poor children he killed? MY FAVORITE MOMENT IN THE MOVIE WAS WHEN BOOTH SHOT HIM.

FDR was an immoral individual for what he did. He should be tried for war crimes and I'M GLAD HE DIED OF POLIO AS A WRETCHED OLD MAN. THAT WAS MY FAVORITE MOMENT OF THE WAR. HE GOT WHAT HE DESERVED!!!111 The old bastard got what was coming to it. Forget that he was dealing with an unprecedented situation in the history of his civilization.

Furthermore add Obama to that list. I condemn him too. He refuses to investigate the previous administration. He also continues the practice of rendition...sending detainees to meaner intelligence agencies where in some cases THEY ARE RAPED. There's even been a case of where an INNOCENT person, not participating in genocide of individuals or anything have been RAPED. Furthermore his spokesman said in reference to the administration killing a 16-year old US citizen "he should've had a better father."

Context is meaningless....so Lincoln Park!

Also, HITLER HITLER HITLER......HITLER!!!11

Furthermore, I think you're engaging in dastardly straw-manning..this claim is baseless of course, but I'm going to lazily straw-man you anyway. Booyah.
[/Locutus]
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Old April 5 2013, 02:01 AM   #195
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

but thats a better arguement than your actual arguement.

i mean i'd comment on the crazy exaggerations, but all your rambles have been like that. points for not repeating eveything again though
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