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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 4 2013, 01:58 AM   #46
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

The Wormhole wrote: View Post

So why stay silent about it now? Yeah, Abrams is a master manipulator who loves to jerk fans around and is probably laughing his ass off hearing about all the various fan theories.
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Old April 4 2013, 04:52 AM   #47
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Hell, if I were him, I'd have deliberately blown a few thousand dollars of the budget on disinformation, hiring a few extras to come in at the end of shots dressed in Sikh turbans or green leotards and Gorn masks so that shots of those characters managed to find their way to the press.

"You own a home-made Police Box? I'll give you $800 out of my own pocket if you bring it down so I can have shots of Kirk and Spock checking it out leak to the Internet. I'll even throw in a copy of some artist's renderings of Archer's beagle as a Borg if you pinky-swear not to upload it anywhere until after the movie is released."
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Old April 4 2013, 01:47 PM   #48
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

^^Even that would have been preferable to complete silience and secrecy we've been getting with this movie.

Although the best way to have done this "twist" would be to announce when Cumberbatch was cast that he was playing a character named John Harrison. Then when the movie does reveal he's Khan or Gary Mitchell or Harry Mudd or Cloud William or whoever the character does indeed end up being it would be more of a surprise instead of the way it's been handled.

Even if it does turn out to be Khan it isn't much of a twist since some people had that predicted before Trek XI was released.
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Old April 4 2013, 03:08 PM   #49
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Well, none of you all get paid to manage publicity or public relations.

Active disinformation can create problems of its own. If something that's made up as misdirection creates big negative response then there's a lot of pressure to walk it back and the game is up - much to the annoyance of the press. A second issue is that there are always folks in the press who know more of the real deal than they report.
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Old April 4 2013, 03:33 PM   #50
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

We now Harrison is working for Starfleet so if he is Kahn, why is he working for starfleet. It could be Marcus is holding something over him, like the other augments, to make Kahn to his dirty work.
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Old April 4 2013, 04:01 PM   #51
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Tom wrote: View Post
We now Harrison is working for Starfleet so if he is Kahn, why is he working for starfleet. It could be Marcus is holding something over him, like the other augments, to make Kahn to his dirty work.
Not bad. I could believe that. Or, Marcus broke a deal with him about how the augments would be treated (becoming the "crime" Harrison can't forgive).

Still, given what is known about the personalities of these augments, super-confidence and super-ambitions that go along with their superior intellect and strength, how could Starfleet believe they could hold Khan in check? Why would they play with fire like that and not believe they'd eventually be burned?

Dammit! Is it May 18, yet?
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Old April 4 2013, 04:23 PM   #52
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Tom wrote: View Post
We now Harrison is working for Starfleet ...
We do? For certain?

Has their been an actual confirmation of this from someone actually involved in the production?

I hope you're not basing that on Peter Weller's line in the trailer that refers to "one of our top agents" being responsible, because that's most likely referring to Noel Clarke's character, whom Harrison recruits in exchange for saving the life of the man's daughter.

If you're basing it on images of Cumberbatch wearing a partial Starfleet uniform... why? Didn't the original Khan also briefly wear one in "Space Seed", even though he most certainly wasn't working for Starfleet? Ditto, that non-Starfleet 20th Century Air Force pilot they had to beam aboard in "Tomorrow is Yesterday"? And the android Norman from "I, Mudd"?
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Old April 4 2013, 04:45 PM   #53
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

chardman wrote: View Post
Tom wrote: View Post
We now Harrison is working for Starfleet ...
We do? For certain?

Has their been an actual confirmation of this from someone actually involved in the production?

I hope you're not basing that on Peter Weller's line in the trailer that refers to "one of our top agents" being responsible, because that's most likely referring to Noel Clarke's character, whom Harrison recruits in exchange for saving the life of the man's daughter.

If you're basing it on images of Cumberbatch wearing a partial Starfleet uniform... why? Didn't the original Khan also briefly wear one in "Space Seed", even though he most certainly wasn't working for Starfleet? Ditto, that non-Starfleet 20th Century Air Force pilot they had to beam aboard in "Tomorrow is Yesterday"? And the android Norman from "I, Mudd"?
I'll put my answer in spoilers, just in case, but --
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Old April 4 2013, 05:20 PM   #54
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Psion wrote: View Post
Hell, if I were him, I'd have deliberately blown a few thousand dollars of the budget on disinformation, hiring a few extras to come in at the end of shots dressed in Sikh turbans or green leotards and Gorn masks so that shots of those characters managed to find their way to the press.

"You own a home-made Police Box? I'll give you $800 out of my own pocket if you bring it down so I can have shots of Kirk and Spock checking it out leak to the Internet. I'll even throw in a copy of some artist's renderings of Archer's beagle as a Borg if you pinky-swear not to upload it anywhere until after the movie is released."
Remember all the Bennett-directed misinformation on TWOK? Multiple endings, Spock lives, Spock dies, Spock maybe does?

He called it throwing tin foil into the radar sets, I think. And he managed that without an internet, and for the most part, without any backlash during the theatrical release. But it only held till about a month prior to release, because The Tonight Show announced his death after the Kansas test screening.

If word hadn't leaked at that point, would crowds have been bigger or smaller? It still did what was the usual thing for TOS Trek films -- biggest opening weekend ever -- so there was curiosity beyond that initial question of Spock's survival (which seems like a much larger matter than the Cumberbatch character's identity, especially since the actor himself is at this moment in time probably more of a draw than the character name.)
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Old April 4 2013, 05:53 PM   #55
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

trevanian wrote: View Post
Remember all the Bennett-directed misinformation on TWOK? Multiple endings, Spock lives, Spock dies, Spock maybe does?
Rather than mostly being deliberate misdirection, wasn't a lot of that the result of actual changes made by the studio after terrible test screenings, and because of requests by Nimoy to tweak the outcome based on his changing attitude toward continuing to play Spock? I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious because I thought that there were several actual "last minute" changes.
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Old April 4 2013, 05:58 PM   #56
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Well, none of you all get paid to manage publicity or public relations.

Active disinformation can create problems of its own. If something that's made up as misdirection creates big negative response then there's a lot of pressure to walk it back and the game is up - much to the annoyance of the press. A second issue is that there are always folks in the press who know more of the real deal than they report.
Well, neither do you, so your opinion here has as much weight as ours. And there'd be just as much chance of a negative response as there is with anything that's actually in the movie that leaks.

Besides, I'm thinking mostly about cheap throwaways intended for Internet consumption, not press releases that would need to walked back. A shot of Kirk and Spock kneeling next to a Horta in a film that has nothing to do with silicon life forms can be easily dismissed as a joke on the set if it looks like it's getting out of hand.

And this approach pays dividends. Once the movie is released and you tell everyone what you did and how much fun it was, no one will ever trust Internet rumors associated with your movies again.

trevanian wrote: View Post
Psion wrote: View Post
Hell, if I were him, I'd have deliberately blown a few thousand dollars of the budget on disinformation, hiring a few extras to come in at the end of shots dressed in Sikh turbans or green leotards and Gorn masks so that shots of those characters managed to find their way to the press.

"You own a home-made Police Box? I'll give you $800 out of my own pocket if you bring it down so I can have shots of Kirk and Spock checking it out leak to the Internet. I'll even throw in a copy of some artist's renderings of Archer's beagle as a Borg if you pinky-swear not to upload it anywhere until after the movie is released."
Remember all the Bennett-directed misinformation on TWOK? Multiple endings, Spock lives, Spock dies, Spock maybe does?

He called it throwing tin foil into the radar sets, I think. And he managed that without an internet, and for the most part, without any backlash during the theatrical release. But it only held till about a month prior to release, because The Tonight Show announced his death after the Kansas test screening.

If word hadn't leaked at that point, would crowds have been bigger or smaller? It still did what was the usual thing for TOS Trek films -- biggest opening weekend ever -- so there was curiosity beyond that initial question of Spock's survival (which seems like a much larger matter than the Cumberbatch character's identity, especially since the actor himself is at this moment in time probably more of a draw than the character name.)
I do remember that, now that you mention it, but was it fully intentional? What a chaotic time that was. But even a perfectly-managed disinformation campaign evaporates the day the movie is released. As soon as people see it, they'll talk about it and spoilers will spread.

But even if it didn't have a negative effect on TWOK, could there be a backlash as Dennis suggests? Before Star Trek: Nemesis, there was a lot of negative chatter about it here and in other places online. Might that have contributed to its downfall? In that sense, maybe he's right; a cheap, fan-made Gorn costume intended as disinformation might spread the idea that the movie's production values are off.
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Old April 4 2013, 06:05 PM   #57
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
Remember all the Bennett-directed misinformation on TWOK? Multiple endings, Spock lives, Spock dies, Spock maybe does?
Rather than mostly being deliberate misdirection, wasn't a lot of that the result of actual changes made by the studio after terrible test screenings, and because of requests by Nimoy to tweak the outcome based on his changing attitude toward continuing to play Spock? I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious because I thought that there were several actual "last minute" changes.
The screening wasn't bad, just folks went out feeling bleak. So you get the addition of the torpedo in Golden Gate Park, and probably the Nimoy 'remember' line, not much else outside of scenes being trimmed.

If you check out the CFQ coverage and the MAKING OF STTWOK, the info there seems to have been pretty accurate; more recent accounts seem to be consistent with those, the only big dif being that Bennett used to say that somebody in his camp at paramount blew the 'spock dies' story very early, and it was only when Shatner and Nimoy started writing their bios that he changed his story to 'GR was the one who blew the spock dies story.' That's about the only aspect I can remember that changed over the years.
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Old April 4 2013, 06:41 PM   #58
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Ah, thanks.
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Old April 4 2013, 06:49 PM   #59
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Franklin wrote: View Post
chardman wrote: View Post
Tom wrote: View Post
We now Harrison is working for Starfleet ...
We do? For certain?

Has their been an actual confirmation of this from someone actually involved in the production?

I hope you're not basing that on Peter Weller's line in the trailer that refers to "one of our top agents" being responsible, because that's most likely referring to Noel Clarke's character, whom Harrison recruits in exchange for saving the life of the man's daughter.

If you're basing it on images of Cumberbatch wearing a partial Starfleet uniform... why? Didn't the original Khan also briefly wear one in "Space Seed", even though he most certainly wasn't working for Starfleet? Ditto, that non-Starfleet 20th Century Air Force pilot they had to beam aboard in "Tomorrow is Yesterday"? And the android Norman from "I, Mudd"?
I'll put my answer in spoilers, just in case, but --
That is correct, he works for Starfleet as an agent of some sort. he does not hide the fact that he is the one getting his 'vengeance' so to speak. The questions are, why does he work for Starfleet and how long. The why may be that he is forced to, or has been secret all along and needs to be in Starfleet for some reason that fits his plans. It does feel that someone(s) in Starfleet was trying to use him and it backfired on them. We have seen so many movies and shows where an organization had tried to control something or someone more powerful then they are only to have it backfire on them. I think his reasons (if Kahn) is that someone is holding his augment brothers captives (Starfleet or the Klingons) and he is seeking to free them or even avenge them if they died.

Starfleet could have even had Kahns memory's suppressed and created the persona of Harrison. Then Kahn starts to remember who is actually is and starts his vengeance. so many possibilities...
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Old April 4 2013, 07:55 PM   #60
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Tom wrote: View Post
Starfleet could have even had Kahns memory's suppressed and created the persona of Harrison. Then Kahn starts to remember who is actually is and starts his vengeance. so many possibilities...
Star Trek Into Total Recall...?
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