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Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

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Old April 2 2013, 07:54 PM   #46
Danger Ace
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Re: Stunned!

feek61 wrote: View Post
Oh, 30%; why didn't you say!! lol.
That is an unwarranted ad hominem argument. Please debate the topic and kindly refrain from personal attacks or attempts at ridicule.

A roughly 30% sampling is more than enough to form an accurate assessment and justified opinion.

I have watched the entire series numerous times and that is what my opinion is based on. Its very hard to give a good performance without conveying any emotion and Blalock did a good job (but it would take watching the show to understand that, ).
So we have a simple disagreement regarding the (de)merits of "Enterprise." I happen to feel that it is unreasonable to say anyone needs to hang-on through two seasons (conservatively speaking) of drek to find enjoyment or any sense of quality in "Enterprise" (or any series for that matter).

I practice what I preach. I loved Deep Space Nine, but when someone in another folder asked if they should watch the series' for the first time I advised them not to. I did this based on their stated likes and dislikes. I did it out of an honest desire for someone not to waste their time on something it sounded as if they wouldn't appreciate even though, as a fan, I would love to have more folks discover this true saga of a series (Deep Space Nine).

Having said all that - I wish you well.
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Old April 2 2013, 08:10 PM   #47
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Re: Stunned!

dub wrote: View Post
Season 3 is still my favorite. But DS9 remains my favorite series overall. For me it's DS9, TNG, ENT then TOS (having not seen VOY all the way through yet).
T-T-TOS is ranked l-l-last! Oh lordy, blasphemy!

Absolutely Just kidding.

Favorite series (in order)

TOS, DS9, TNG, VOY and then ENT

I only made it through four or five seasons of Voyager. The weird thing is I don't have any bad feelings toward it - I just got tired of the overuse of the holo-deck and the constant resets. Tim Russ though is a perfect example of someone who appeared not to have a good grasp on his character in the beginning but turned it around. And it didn't take him 2+ seasons to do it.

My favorite Captains (in order):

Kirk, Sisko, Janeway, Picard and then Archer.

How's that for a bone in which to beat me with? Janeway over Picard! Be kind and no hitting in the face.
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Old April 2 2013, 09:10 PM   #48
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Re: Stunned!

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
All jokes aside. Jolene Blalock maybe a terrific person. She may have been a hard worker. The role of T'Pol was indeed perhaps the trickiest and most difficult to play. I'll conceded all those points, however, she simply, by my estimation, did not have the experience or self-confidence to convincingly play such a demanding role. That is not necessarily a knock on her, but rather the producers who cast Ms. Blalock in the part - they threw her to wolves.
I love Enterprise, I love Jolene, and T'Pol was my favorite of the charaters, but I have to grudgingly agree with the above. I don't think she even realized she'd been given one of the greatest female roles in (TV) Trek history. Jolene constantly complained that T'Pol wasn't being written the way a Vulcan was supposed to be written. It sounded like she wanted the character to be written exactly like Spock, apparently unaware that because he was half human, Spock struggled to suppress emotion as much as T'Pol did.

Here she'd been given a character who was supposed to suppress emotions yet was fascinated by them, had had trouble all her life suppressing them, all while living on a small ship full of emotional humans, one of whom she developes a close friendship with, another, a romantic relationship. There are many actors who would have killed for a role like this.

She was like a fan, complaining about what Vulcans should and should not be doing. To me, this is where her inexperience showed.

She apparently wanted T'Pol to be far more in control of her emotions -- and a lot less intriguing. I do think you should watch season 3. I think Jolene did better, though a more accomplished actor might have had fans screaming for an Emmy nomination with what might have been done with the material.
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Old April 2 2013, 09:50 PM   #49
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Re: Stunned!

gblews wrote: View Post
She was like a fan, complaining about what Vulcans should and should not be doing. To me, this is where her inexperience showed.
She was a fan, and Spock was her favorite character, by her own admission.
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Old April 2 2013, 10:05 PM   #50
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Re: Stunned!

I think season three was the best story line you could have had in any Star Trek series. If it wasn't for Archer we would never had any other Star Trek heros !!!! Lol good season !!! Season 4 was a so rushed so many good story's but one after another was far to much for one season !!!! And I'd loved to seen the beginnings of the romulan war with earth !!!
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Old April 2 2013, 10:30 PM   #51
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Re: Stunned!

Spock was a half-human who overcompensated by acting Super Vulcan. T'Pol was a Vulcan corrupted by being on a ship of humans. That's how I saw it.
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Old April 2 2013, 10:39 PM   #52
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Re: Stunned!

gblews wrote: View Post
She was like a fan, complaining about what Vulcans should and should not be doing.
An actress being vocal about the direction of her character? Never! If anything, I have more respect for Jolene after reading this. That shows me that she at least had respect for her role.

I thought she did a great job as T'Pol. I remember a scene early on when Malcom was dreaming that T'Pol was coming on to him. T'Pol snickered at him. It was such a small moment but I was so fascinated by that scene, because she hadn't before shown any amusement on screen (even though it was only a dream). It's sort of like the Spanish teacher breaking into English after speaking only in Spanish for most of the semester. It was fun to watch, and it was a moment when I realized how impressive her performance was up to that point. I was always interested in watching her reactions, waiting for a hint of emotion...waiting for her to crack. She was able to put a lot of personality in actions as small as moving her head or eyebrows in a certain way. And she always had a hint of vulnerability in her eyes. Then at the end of season 2 everything changes and we get to see her gradually expand the role

After watching the entire series, I enjoyed Jolene's performance as T'Pol and rank T'Pol as one of my favorite Vulcans in Trek.
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Old April 2 2013, 11:17 PM   #53
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Re: Stunned!

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Spock was a half-human who overcompensated by acting Super Vulcan. T'Pol was a Vulcan corrupted by being on a ship of humans. That's how I saw it.
I will not contest the T'Pol observation, however, I do disagree with your assessment of Mr. Spock. I don't think he was acting "super vulcan" rather he was looking to deny his human-half which is something different altogether.

Though, oddly enough, I do think Mr. Spock, in the end, became a sort of "super vulcan" as in logic being a path to a destination wherein he reached it - enlightenment, wisdom, perspective, etc. ...
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Old April 2 2013, 11:27 PM   #54
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Re: Stunned!

gblews wrote: View Post
I do think you should watch season 3.
This.

Lots of great balanced observations here about Jolene/T'Pol, who I love. Is she limited as an actress? Hell, yes. Did she do a decent job as T'Pol? Yes, I think she got there eventually.
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Old April 3 2013, 12:25 AM   #55
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Re: Stunned!

Melakon wrote: View Post
gblews wrote: View Post
She was like a fan, complaining about what Vulcans should and should not be doing. To me, this is where her inexperience showed.
She was a fan, and Spock was her favorite character, by her own admission.
In addition to being a fan, she was one of the actors charged with not only bringing the story to life but also making it interesting for the fans. Her fandom, I thought, got in the way of her profession. Instead of putting aside her distaste for the writers taking her character where she didn't think the character should go, not from a story standpoint, but from what she knew, or thought she knew, about a similar character in a different show.

Had she realized that even though T'Pol was a "Vulcan" like Spock, she ("T'Pol") was still a completely separate and different character from Spock, she might have been able to get further into the role thereby giving a better performance.

A few of her gripes were legit, the eyebrows, the continuity issues (T'Pol touches food with her hands or she doesn't), but her complaints about the character's storyline in season 3 in particular, may have undermined her performance.
dub wrote: View Post
gblews wrote: View Post
She was like a fan, complaining about what Vulcans should and should not be doing.
An actress being vocal about the direction of her character? Never! If anything, I have more respect for Jolene after reading this. That shows me that she at least had respect for her role.
Many fans reacted to Jolene with admration, I did too, for having the guts to stand up to TPTB.

But sometimes complaints by actors should be ignored by the writers. This was one of those times. Yes, she did have respect for her role -- as she understood it, and there is the problem; I just don't think she quite understood the role, especially in those first 3 seasons.

Had she understood the character better, she might have been able to put aside what she knew as a fan, that Vulcans did this and didn't do that, and really take what may have been the best female Trek role ever, and made it into something great. As it was, she was just okay although there was notable improvement by the latter part of season 4.
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Old April 3 2013, 02:34 PM   #56
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Re: Stunned!

feek61 wrote: View Post
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feek61 wrote: View Post
Yet by your own admission you have not watched the show on a consistent basis.
You may have me confused with someone else. I watched "Enterprise" devoutely for the first season and a half (or two-thirds) - about 30% overall.
Oh, 30%; why didn't you say!! lol.
I'll go ahead and step in here. I have seen every episode of every version of Star Trek from the original up through and including the Abomination that is Enterprise. And I'm calling bullshit on your entire post. The series did not get better. It got only progressively worse with lazy writers who coasted by, at best. After 20+ years of writing the same stuff, the writers were bored, and it showed. Say what you will about the various actors, but they can only do what is on the written page. If the writers don't give them anything to do, they ... well, they become Travis. Set dressing.

The gazelle speech. The Ferengi clusterfuck. The night in sickbay. Space nazis. THIS is the kind of series you're bragging about and lashing out against other posters for not slagging their way through? Seriously?

Any random episode of Enterprise - even the "best" - makes Voyager's "Threshold" look like "City on the Edge of Forever" by comparison.
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Old April 3 2013, 04:55 PM   #57
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Re: Stunned!

Well, all I can say is to each his own. I too have watched every version of Star Trek from the very beginning of TOS. I know many people who LOVE DS9 and personally I can't stand it. I do understand that it is my opinion and doesn't affect others love for it. I don't however go into that section and post about how bad the acting and ridiculous the story lines were or how uninteresting and boring the characters are. I really don't understand why people think that their opinion is more valid than others or that people care that you don't like the show that I do. I personally don't care if anyone likes or dislikes "Enterprise" but people sure do think that their limited opinions actually mean something. I also don't get posting about shows that you apparently hate. Luckily I have better things to do than to post about things I don't like, lol

Cheers!
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Old April 3 2013, 11:31 PM   #58
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Re: Stunned!

feek61 wrote: View Post
... but people sure do think that their limited opinions actually mean something.
Hey sport, way to totally invalidate this forum, The Trek BBS, and its reason for existing. Talk about going nuclear.

Remember: we can't have a BBS without BS.
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Old April 4 2013, 12:09 AM   #59
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Re: Stunned!

feek61 wrote: View Post
Well, all I can say is to each his own. I too have watched every version of Star Trek from the very beginning of TOS. I know many people who LOVE DS9 and personally I can't stand it. I do understand that it is my opinion and doesn't affect others love for it. I don't however go into that section and post about how bad the acting and ridiculous the story lines were or how uninteresting and boring the characters are. I really don't understand why people think that their opinion is more valid than others or that people care that you don't like the show that I do. I personally don't care if anyone likes or dislikes "Enterprise" but people sure do think that their limited opinions actually mean something. I also don't get posting about shows that you apparently hate. Luckily I have better things to do than to post about things I don't like, lol

Cheers!
I completely agree.

If I'm having a bitch about my least favorite series (TNG) I don't do it in the TNG forum. If I'm going to eviscerate Riker because I hate him I don't do it in the TNG forum. Why piss on other people's party?

I don't get spending so much time in a forum for a show you hate talking about how you hate it. It's ugly.
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Old April 4 2013, 12:24 AM   #60
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Re: Stunned!

teacake wrote: View Post
I don't get spending so much time in a forum for a show you hate talking about how you hate it. It's ugly.
But therapeutic. It's medical name is Braga Inspired Therapy of Conversational Healing (BITCH).

Really.

Look it up.
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