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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old March 25 2013, 03:51 PM   #76
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

jimbotron wrote: View Post
USS Firefly wrote: View Post
I believe one of his rules was also that the bridge should be on the top op the saucer section
I often wondered why so few enemies targeted the bridge with their weapons. It's a huge vulnerability. I remember the Klingons were going to in Generations, and the NX-01 got its bridge ripped off and everyone died in one "what-if" episode. Take out the bridge, and there's suddenly no chain of command or control.

It's almost as bad as having the shield generators stick out for anyone to shoot on Star Destroyers. There's a reason hearts are inside our chest cavity and not on the outside.
It's not the job of the hull to protect the bridge - that's what shields are for. Any attack powerful enough to punch through shields will hit the bridge no matter where it is. So the bridge could literally be anywhere and it wouldn't be any less safe.
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Old March 25 2013, 05:04 PM   #77
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

Let's face it - if you want to kill the thing and shields are down, you aim for the warp core, not the bridge. Pretty much *any* direct hit there will make the ship go boom.
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Old March 25 2013, 06:04 PM   #78
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

Does it make any sense for the bridge to be a distinct module sitting right atop the ship? No, not really.

But, at the same time, were the bridge buried deep within the bowels of the ship, it wouldn't really make much difference. Shields are what keep the whole ship intact. Look at TUC. Once the shields are down, a single photon torpedo is able to rip through the entire saucer section from bottom to top. Wouldn't matter where the bridge is at that point. It would still be just as vulnerable.

Also, tactically speaking, why go after the bridge anyway? Just for the emotional punch of killing the captain? If Picard and the bridge crew get taken out, it's not as if the other 1,000 people on the ship would just surrender. Pretty sure everyone from LaForge in engineering to Ensign Ricky in stellar cartography would continue to fight.
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Old March 25 2013, 08:18 PM   #79
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

Gene's directive of where the bridge is kept, I guess that was a retention from naval vessels. The bridge is generally at the top, looking over the rest of the ship.

It makes sense from a story standpoint because the camera can zoom to the bridge, and then you can fade to the bridge set (as was famously done in the original pilot).

Also, tactically speaking, why go after the bridge anyway? Just for the emotional punch of killing the captain? If Picard and the bridge crew get taken out, it's not as if the other 1,000 people on the ship would just surrender. Pretty sure everyone from LaForge in engineering to Ensign Ricky in stellar cartography would continue to fight.
It makes sense if the purpose was to raid the ship. With no captain or chain of command, the rest of the crew would be confused and easily defeated if there was an invasion.
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Old March 25 2013, 08:30 PM   #80
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

jimbotron wrote: View Post
It makes sense if the purpose was to raid the ship. With no captain or chain of command, the rest of the crew would be confused and easily defeated if there was an invasion.
Taking out the handful of officers on the bridge doesn't mean that there's no chain of command. There's always a chain of command to be followed. Look at "Disaster." Everyone trapped in the different areas of the ship knew the proper protocols to follow and who was in charge of what.
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Old March 25 2013, 08:38 PM   #81
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

The bridge is generally at the top, looking over the rest of the ship.
...Although even in Gene's writing days, you'd rarely find the skipper or the first officer up there. All the real action would be in a darkened room deep down, with display screens rather than windows, and with radios rather than binoculars.

Having the bridge at the top of the ship would not be "realistic", but it wouldn't exactly be "unrealistic", either. It would be very vaguely satisfactory in the verisimilitude sense, bringing back memories of a time when there had been realism to such a placement (an extremely narrow time window after the invention of steam but before the invention of wireless), but highly satisfactory in the "wow, I can see where they are!" sense. And in a science fiction, the level of internal realism for such a placement could be established by the writers, without constraints from the real world.

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Old March 30 2013, 01:23 AM   #82
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

junxon wrote: View Post
my eyes, my eyes

cannot take the sheer coolness
Hell yes!!!!

That's a muscle ship!!!
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Old March 30 2013, 01:25 AM   #83
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

junxon wrote: View Post
my eyes, my eyes

cannot take the sheer coolness
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The Ent-D looked gorgeous on the big screen in GEN. Sure the model wasn't greatly practical for shooting or maneuvering but they quickly went to CGI anyway so that idea is a wash.

The Ent-D was as much of a character in TNG as everyonbe else and it's just disgusting how easily and quickly she was destroyed and dismissed as if she was just another piece of the set they didn't want anymore.
This
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Old March 30 2013, 01:36 AM   #84
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
junxon wrote: View Post
my eyes, my eyes

cannot take the sheer coolness
Hell yes!!!!

That's a muscle ship!!!
Steroids are bad. Ships on steroids are even worse.
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Old March 30 2013, 02:13 AM   #85
Lance
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The Ent-D looked gorgeous on the big screen in GEN. Sure the model wasn't greatly practical for shooting or maneuvering but they quickly went to CGI anyway so that idea is a wash.

The Ent-D was as much of a character in TNG as everyonbe else and it's just disgusting how easily and quickly she was destroyed and dismissed as if she was just another piece of the set they didn't want anymore.
This
Seconded. One thing I that I've always hated was the attitude the writers seemed to take about it. Having the characters just transplanted into a new ship in the very next movie always left a bad taste for me. As if the writers just couldn't understand that the viewers can get just as attached to the sets and models the same way we do to the people and actors. I've got a greater emotional connection to the 1701-D than I do to its successor.

The Ent-E never had that same connection to me. It was just a "nothing ship" IMO, I didn't care about it. Whereas seeing 1701-D tackling the Borg invasion attempt or fighting the Son'a would at least have registered an emotional connection to me. Of course, the old Enterprise D sets were all being converted for use on Voyager, so on a practical level I'm afraid the death of 1701-D was a necessity.
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Old March 30 2013, 02:46 AM   #86
GalaxyX
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

Lance wrote: View Post
GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The Ent-D looked gorgeous on the big screen in GEN. Sure the model wasn't greatly practical for shooting or maneuvering but they quickly went to CGI anyway so that idea is a wash.

The Ent-D was as much of a character in TNG as everyonbe else and it's just disgusting how easily and quickly she was destroyed and dismissed as if she was just another piece of the set they didn't want anymore.
This
Seconded. One thing I that I've always hated was the attitude the writers seemed to take about it. Having the characters just transplanted into a new ship in the very next movie always left a bad taste for me. As if the writers just couldn't understand that the viewers can get just as attached to the sets and models the same way we do to the people and actors. I've got a greater emotional connection to the 1701-D than I do to its successor.

The Ent-E never had that same connection to me. It was just a "nothing ship" IMO, I didn't care about it. Whereas seeing 1701-D tackling the Borg invasion attempt or fighting the Son'a would at least have registered an emotional connection to me. Of course, the old Enterprise D sets were all being converted for use on Voyager, so on a practical level I'm afraid the death of 1701-D was a necessity.
I remember what hooked me into TNG was the Enterprise D and Data. By definition, both machines.

I loved the way that ship looked like extremely advanced technology that was human designed (unlike other ships from other series that tend to look organic or insect like).

I also loved Data's character, and what he represented.

I hated everyone else particularly Troi with her "I sense your feelings!" and Riker with his female ass grabbery and stupid coy smirk.

I did warm up to everyone though eventually, but the ship was a huge part of my original love of the show. It truly was part of the series.

The movies lost that by getting rid of it and replacing it with some insect looking thing.
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Old March 31 2013, 10:20 PM   #87
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
junxon wrote: View Post
my eyes, my eyes

cannot take the sheer coolness
Hell yes!!!!

That's a muscle ship!!!
If the Enterprise D was a graceful lady, full of style and refinement.

This thing is a macho stud, with a big swing johnson.

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Old April 1 2013, 06:22 AM   #88
Tom Riley
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

Lance wrote: View Post
GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The Ent-D looked gorgeous on the big screen in GEN. Sure the model wasn't greatly practical for shooting or maneuvering but they quickly went to CGI anyway so that idea is a wash.

The Ent-D was as much of a character in TNG as everyonbe else and it's just disgusting how easily and quickly she was destroyed and dismissed as if she was just another piece of the set they didn't want anymore.
This
Seconded. One thing I that I've always hated was the attitude the writers seemed to take about it. Having the characters just transplanted into a new ship in the very next movie always left a bad taste for me. As if the writers just couldn't understand that the viewers can get just as attached to the sets and models the same way we do to the people and actors. I've got a greater emotional connection to the 1701-D than I do to its successor.

The Ent-E never had that same connection to me. It was just a "nothing ship" IMO, I didn't care about it. Whereas seeing 1701-D tackling the Borg invasion attempt or fighting the Son'a would at least have registered an emotional connection to me. Of course, the old Enterprise D sets were all being converted for use on Voyager, so on a practical level I'm afraid the death of 1701-D was a necessity.
The sets really do form a connection. My mom is a big Star Trek fan and loved TOS. Her and my father watching TNG during its first run is what got me into Star Trek so much, I literally grew up with it on in our house all the time from the day I was born. Anyways, one of the things my mom always tells me about when TNG first aired was that she didn't connect to the ship right away. One of her initial reactions about the bridge set: "WHERE ARE THE RED DOORS?!"
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Old April 3 2013, 12:55 AM   #89
GalaxyX
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

T'Girl wrote: View Post
GalaxyX wrote: View Post
junxon wrote: View Post
my eyes, my eyes

cannot take the sheer coolness
Hell yes!!!!

That's a muscle ship!!!
If the Enterprise D was a graceful lady, full of style and refinement.

This thing is a macho stud, with a big swing johnson.

I can agree with this
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Old April 3 2013, 07:38 PM   #90
C.E. Evans
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

It's overcompensating for something, though.
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